vino 125 peformance kit

[Focus Mike]

i found a perfomance kit on the internet but i cant post up a link.

it makes the 125cc motor a 150cc motor.
it comes with exaust
pully
roller kit
oil blocker
and i think something else.

basically i wanted to know if anyone has any experience with something like this.

does it dramaticaly affect the reliablity of the vino scooter?
does the gas milage suffer badly?
how many mph does the scooter go?

any help would be great...and when is this site gunna offer parts for the 125??? any progress....

-mike

[GUNSGONZ]

Although I recommend to anyone that ask that its best to leave it stock until you have gotten a substantial use out of the engine before installing a rebuild kit. It still sounds like a good package deal, how much does the kit cost?

[Focus Mike]

619 dollars as a PACKAGE price.
otherwise its like 670 i think.

anyone know how fast the scooter should go?

i currently have i belive 3,500 miles on my scoot if i can recall correctly. chicago weather sux.

[waterinthefuel]

I think someone on this forum installed the 160cc kit and said that the top speed isn't what increased, but the pep. He may be getting a few more mph, but did mention that it really may not be worth the time and money for not a substantial increase.

Basically he said just get a bigger scoot if you want a faster one.

[GUNSGONZ]

Thats the only other thing that bothers me about CVT (auto trans on scooters) is that increases in power from mods doesent necessarily translate to the rear wheel. Like Jered alluded to, gears are better for that. Having said that I suppose I would be happier even if it meant that a mod like this would provide more staying power up hills and less slow downs, again if the CVT doesent get in the way.

I think someone on this forum installed the 160cc kit and said that the top speed isn't what increased, but the pep. He may be getting a few more mph, but did mention that it really may not be worth the time and money for not a substantial increase.

Basically he said just get a bigger scoot if you want a faster one.

[rydah]

Thats the only other thing that bothers me about CVT (auto trans on scooters) is that increases in power from mods doesent necessarily translate to the rear wheel. Like Jered alluded to, gears are better for that. Having said that I suppose I would be happier even if it meant that a mod like this would provide more staying power up hills and less slow downs, again if the CVT doesent get in the way.
why would anyone put on all these engine mods and not change gears. the CVT tranny is great you just have to know how to use it.

[GUNSGONZ]

why would anyone put on all these engine mods and not change gears. the CVT tranny is great you just have to know how to use it.

I will pass on answering that question since it is an oxymoron.

[waterinthefuel]

I agree Gunz, I'm not quite sure if he was serious or not.

[XPS1210]

I agree Gunz, I'm not quite sure if he was serious or not.

um, If I were you... I'd listed to Rydah... he's got a pretty bad mama scooter... and knows his stuff!

if you increase the power of the motor... and have a limiting factor.. IE: the tranny... then you might get more take off but not any more top end... installing taller gears along with more power from the engine, makes for a larger improvement on the top end!

if the motor can push taller gears... INSTALL SOME!

[waterinthefuel]

Ahh, I stand corrected. I have no freakin' clue how a CVT tranny works! I will admit that!

Where would you get new gears? Jered, that's why I never thought of upgrading. I only want top speed, acceleration means nothing to me. I thought the CVT was horrible for that.

Please share any info you have on that!

[XPS1210]

the CVT is basically like an 18 speed bicycle... the front is small when starting and the rear is large... as the speed increases, the front opens wider and the rear becomes smaller... That's the jist of how a CVT works...

Now, once you get enough power, it "could" technically jump the pulley if it was a strong enough engine... the belts are just the correct size to keep this from happening... However if your engine will spin faster... but you don't have taller gears... the transmission could limit a higher top speed...

I don't think cheap end parts will cause this, however serious tuning and porting of parts could make it a factor... on the flip side... my stock zuma went 40 mph... with nothing else but taller gears in it, it went 42 mph... so nothing but taller gears, and I got 2 mph on the top end... add other performance parts and that number increases drastically!

I had my zuma doing a steady 60+ when I had all my top end parts on it... I even kept up with traffic at one point on the highway (65 mph) speed limits... I don't know how fast it actually was, but the traffic normally went 65-70 on that road...

Keep in mind, one part could make or break a performance package... IE: doing a cylinder only... has benefits and negatives... or just a pipe, then the rollers and springs slow you down... it's all in tuning it togeather... even on 4 strokes...

[str8dum]

cvts are VERY sensitive to gearing. Too big of a gear and you lose accel and top end. Your belt HAS to move to the extreme points of the pulleys to matter. If yoru motor is not riding the belt at the top of the vario and the bottom of the rear pully, your performance WILL suffer. not if ands or buts.

Its that simple. The 13/44 upgear is more than enough for a standard 70cc upgrade. even those with racier setups still use 13/44 with 110kph speeds. Do not add gears until you can max out your pulleys

[GUNSGONZ]

Now I have seen the basic specs on the CVT concept and understand that the belt between the forward and rear pulleys falls and rises between the spreading pulleys to create the difference in ratios but your expression with changing gears (as in metalic helical) is a little confusing. Do you mean that you are changing the pulley sizes or the spread rate of the pullys? Because I don't see any gears in this model below. Please clarify exactly how you change the potential ratios or there rate.



http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/cvt-13.jpg

The variable-diameter pulleys are the heart of a CVT. Each pulley is made of two 20-degree cones facing each other. A belt rides in the groove between the two cones. V-belts are preferred if the belt is made of rubber. V-belts get their name from the fact that the belts bear a V-shaped cross section, which increases the frictional grip of the belt.
When the two cones of the pulley are far apart (when the diameter increases), the belt rides lower in the groove, and the radius of the belt loop going around the pulley gets smaller. When the cones are close together (when the diameter decreases), the belt rides higher in the groove, and the radius of the belt loop going around the pulley gets larger. CVTs may use hydraulic pressure, centrifugal force or spring tension to create the force necessary to adjust the pulley halves.
Variable-diameter pulleys must always come in pairs. One of the pulleys, known as the drive pulley (or driving pulley), is connected to the crankshaft of the engine. The driving pulley is also called the input pulley because it's where the energy from the engine enters the transmission. The second pulley is called the driven pulley because the first pulley is turning it. As an output pulley, the driven pulley transfers energy to the driveshaft.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/cvt-14.gif
The distance between the center of the pulleys to where the belt makes contact in the groove is known as the pitch radius. When the pulleys are far apart, the belt rides lower and the pitch radius decreases. When the pulleys are close together, the belt rides higher and the pitch radius increases. The ratio of the pitch radius on the driving pulley to the pitch radius on the driven pulley determines the ratio.

[rydah]

if you were to get a malossi or polini over range you will notice that he pulleys are bigger then the stock pulleys. also if you were to take your tranny cover off and pull off your rear pulley you will see the gearbox cover where the gears. if you were to open that cover you will see the gears in there that i was talking about in my 1st post on this tread before i was told i didnt know what i was talking about. lol. its all good though i like not knowing anything.
str8 those 13/44 gears only come out too 13.2 to 1 on a jog and on a honda its 11.8 to 1. out here we run 8 or 9 to 1 on jogs (i'm trying to get a 7 to 1) and on hondas we go as tall as 6 to 1, but most run 6.8 to 1. i have seen hondas get into the 90 to 95mph range with those tall gears and yamahas as fast as 88 or 89mph.

[Zuma-Zuma]

You can also tune the individual pulleys. Rollers on one end, and the torque spring and ramps on the other. Since the CVT reacts under load and power, if you change your powerband, or want to stretch the topend, you'll affect this little balancing act. What has been stated time and time again here is tune the motor first, with the mods you want, THEN tune the CVT. After you have it launching, shifting, and toping out where you want, then recheck top speed mixture (chop's). You don't want the CVT acting like an Overdrive, and just sitting at some rpm without having the gearing or power to climb out, and get into the "next" powerband. CVT's are so good, they are making cars with them now.

[str8dum]

yeah and are those guys running airsal cylinders? You can put on as big of gear as you want. Unless you have tons of power to open the pulleys all the way, they dont do you any good. 99% of the setups in the US dont need or benefit from anything bigger than 13/44. Jogs are prolly 80 pounds lighter than a Zuma, so you can use a bigger gear bc it has more power to weight.

13/44 is a 12.4:1 ratio anyhow (the secondary is 3.66 * 3,38 primary on a 13/44)

stock is 14.46:1 (4*3.66) so thats a 15% upgear.



str8 those 13/44 gears only come out too 13.2 to 1 on a jog and on a honda its 11.8 to 1. out here we run 8 or 9 to 1 on jogs (i'm trying to get a 7 to 1) and on hondas we go as tall as 6 to 1, but most run 6.8 to 1. i have seen hondas get into the 90 to 95mph range with those tall gears and yamahas as fast as 88 or 89mph.

[GUNSGONZ]

OK I understand now, I diden't realize you actually go beyond messing with the pulley sizes and tension and start pulling reduction gears inside the case. I don't think I even have the ambition to get to the pulleys. But I am going to start by opening up the exhaust, intake, with increases in the main and pilot jet if it requires more turns for idle circuit, all with respect to the spark plug burn indications. I am hoping that will give me enough to maintain what the Vino is capable of, a stronger sustained 50 MPH would make me happy and get rid of some of this sluggish 35-40 on slight grades and weak mid range acceleration. Just a bit more. But as heavy as the Vino is for a scooter I bet a standard 6 speed transition would have let it fly much better, but I suppose it wouldn't really be a scooter. It embarrassing when your buddy's 31 year old stock restored C70 Honda scooter with manual trany can smoke you.

Thanks You, I will know who to come to for CVT help after I get it breathing right.

[rydah]

lol, thats pretty funny a c70 can smoke you. i dont think it should be that way. i know that they are both 4strokes but i still think you should beat him because you dont have to shift. i know for sure that c70 will not beat any of the guys in here with just a provo stage1 set up.
str8 on my zuma i am running a 9 to 1 gear set and on my 91 zuma i am running a 10 to 1 gear set and both bikes wheelie from every stop.

[GUNSGONZ]

Well yes your right considering my Vino is stock virgin and my buddy's C70 is refurbished with some basic mods, new carb exc, and probably because I am 6'3 and wight 231 and my buddy weighs 145. But mostly because he can speed clutch and wind the RPMs on that thing out while I am at the mercy of the CVT wizard. Probubly why CVT's aren't used in any form of sanctioned race competition.

[WildBill228]

both bikes wheelie from every stop.
"every stop"? How many versions of stop are there?

[str8dum]

you are runnin 16/40 gears on your zuma? bc that 9:1.

i personally dont want a bike that wheelies. while you wheelie i put 100m into you :)

[rydah]

you are runnin 16/40 gears on your zuma? bc that 9:1.

i personally dont want a bike that wheelies. while you wheelie i put 100m into you :)
Guns they do hold races for scooters all over europe. if you were to try and buy a full race malossi zip or polini zip that bike would cost you a lil more then 10grand.
lol, Str8 i dont think you could put 100m on me even with your evo2 and roost pipe, your bike is just too heavy. my zuma is just a workhorse bike anyways. i built my honda and jog for real speed.

[str8dum]

yeah thats why i own a sports car. :) and my zuma is a toy.

seriously, you have 16/40s on your Zuma?

[rydah]

yeah thats why i own a sports car. :) and my zuma is a toy.

seriously, you have 16/40s on your Zuma?
that is very true, these mopeds are just toys for us to have fun on esp living in hawaii where the sun is shinning 99% of the time. i dont remember what gear numbers i have in my zuma. i just count the number of spins on my clutch bell to 1 spin of the back rim and thats how you can tell what ratio you have. if you get 9 spins of your bell to 1 spin of the rear tire then you have 9 to 1. thats how we do it without opening up the tranny. to calculate jogs i use 3.9 and for hondas i use 3.5. what numbers do you use for your bugeye.

[str8dum]

16/40 primary (2.5) and the 3.6 secondary (9:1). its a huge gear. my front end is also quite a bit heavier with bigger wheels, radiator, lights etc.

i wish i lived soemwhere where there were scooter cruises and you could ride your scoot all over. traffic is so bad here and though i have no prob keepin up, cars just dont see you. takes alot of the fun out of riding.

[GUNSGONZ]

Come to Arizona and live you'll get board seeing one car every 400 cactus's.

16/40 primary (2.5) and the 3.6 secondary (9:1). its a huge gear. my front end is also quite a bit heavier with bigger wheels, radiator, lights etc.

i wish i lived soemwhere where there were scooter cruises and you could ride your scoot all over. traffic is so bad here and though i have no prob keepin up, cars just dont see you. takes alot of the fun out of riding.

[str8dum]

well maybe not like that. more like bermuda where scooters are primary mod of transport for almost everyone. i can drive aimlessly out in the sticks here as well and not see many cars. i guess its just more fun if you have others to ride with, like the harley or crotch rocket rallys.

[rydah]

16/40 primary (2.5) and the 3.6 secondary (9:1). its a huge gear. my front end is also quite a bit heavier with bigger wheels, radiator, lights etc.

i wish i lived soemwhere where there were scooter cruises and you could ride your scoot all over. traffic is so bad here and though i have no prob keepin up, cars just dont see you. takes alot of the fun out of riding.
o.k. i see on your bugeye engines you use the 3.6 as the multiplier, cool. i also have a set of aerox wheeles waiting to be put on my bike. i want to get a keisler rear 5". my friend has one on his malaguti and his bike looks nuts with a 150 rear. out here we set up scooter rides all the time. the night time cruises are the most fun. we ride around the whole island of oahu 50 to 70 scooters deep, all modded to do 60 or more.

[zenish]

i know very little about scooters,but it seems to me if my scooter will run 53 on flat ground with no wind blowing,that more power should help me maintain 53 better going up hills.i don't want to go faster,just not to drop down to 43 on a long incline.btw i talked to the motorsports place and they said it takes a lot of machining to install the big bore kit and they don't carry it anymore.

[Panathrasher]

i found a perfomance kit on the internet but i cant post up a link.

it makes the 125cc motor a 150cc motor.
it comes with exaust
pully
roller kit
oil blocker
and i think something else.

-mike
Would you mind PMing me the info/link for the performance upgrade kit???