variator problems. part 3

[Malformed]

theres alot of rubber in the case. i will take a picture.


i cant get it apart... i dont have large enough sockets.
and my strap wrench is too small also.

i just dont understand how the rear clutch works.
correct me if im wrong, but weaker clutch springs would make the rear clutch engage sooner... thats not what i want.

the larger/higher tension torque spring holds the two rear halves together alot tighter, which is for sure causing alot of wear on my belt.

i think whats happening is when the rear clutch is engaging, theres so much pressure on the belt, its actualy slowing me down.
would that make sense?

im thinking the torque spring is to much tension. its realy hard to pull the rear pullys apart, making it impossible for the belt to slide freely.
putting me the "gear" hardest on the engine, soon as the clutch engages and i start going.
which makes sense to me, because its like trying to pedel a bike in the largest gears, hard to get going, but once you are rolling at a decent clip, its smooth sailing.

i dont know, maybe im retarded.

[Elliott]

Malformed

torque spring is to much tension. its realy hard to pull the rear pullys apart

I all so have that Problem with the China Scoot its hard to pull apart but i dont think that would be it , Normaly rubber Ash are Standard in All Scooters that are Belt Driven!! i have the same rubber Ash in the Case Here!!

Thats Normal Malformed So dont Clean it all the time it will Just Build up Again!! Again!! Again!! I will wait for the Picture to give you a TIP! :confused:

The rear Clucth Turn Clockwise Half Way!! But Only One Side Turns the Other side is Standard it dont rotate like the Outer pulley., when the Clucth Spins it Turns Half-Way there is a Screew inside the Unit With Oil Inside sometime the Oil breaks Down, Sticky and will make the Clucth Config Slow and Harder to Turn!! in order to test if your Sticking remove belt and Try to pull the rear Outer pully apart and if it sticks and dont automatic go back into Position you have a slow Clutch!! :eek:

[Malformed]

no thats not it.
and no... that much rubber dust is not normal.
it was totaly clean before, even after changing the variator, even after 500 miles.



now after under 20 miles, its caked up, and the belt is looking stretched and misshapened.

here are pics.

http://www.makeitstop.org/scooter/tuning/crap.jpg

http://www.makeitstop.org/scooter/tuning/crap%20(1).jpg

http://www.makeitstop.org/scooter/tuning/crap%20(2).jpg

http://www.makeitstop.org/scooter/tuning/crap%20(3).jpg

its either the clutch springs or torque spring, i cant see why it would be the 3 clutch springs, and the clutch springs are definitly not causing the excess wear on the belt.

[Elliott]

Try take out the Red Spring put the old one back in After you clean it and Run it to see if it's doing it Again this should Narrow it out! to a few Options!!

if is still do the same thing It may be the variator but lets not jump to that yet! First clean Put back old Spring!! and run it ;)

[Malformed]

yea, thats what i planned on doing once i saw all the dust.

you sure do like to use alot of !!!!!'s ;)

[XPS1210]

Okay... My rear pulley is like you said... it spins a little... however.... mine have bearings in them and not oil finned...

So, Maybe I missed what your talking about... but I swear that there is no oil in the pulley... There is gear oil that is in the gear case...

The only thing that I can think you are talking about is that the bearings are goofing up...

I donno... check it out for sure... Let us know... that's something to keep in mind if that every becomes more of a problem for me...

The nut on the variator and the clutch are 17mm... I use large vise grip to take them both off... I pinch the vise grips on the kick start gear as well as the clutch shoe, I pinch the clutch shoe in one of the holes and the outside of the shoe...

I seriously wouldn't use anything like a crescent wrench to loosen the nuts...

Also Wear leather gloves... I split my nuckle on my right hand all the way to the bone... It was nasty... bled for about 4 hours before it finally stopped... Probably should have went to the ER but I wanted to finish the scooter... So when I was finished and all cleaned up... it was done bleeding...

Be careful... Best way to loosen the nut is to place the socket and the vise grips so you can place both in one hand and tighten your grip so they come togeather... Taht way you don't "slip" and bust your hand open...

[Malformed]

on too tight.

no way i can get that off, even with vice grips (i tried).
:confused:

[Elliott]

You might try what jered! said, but to use a Big Vice and turn the handle place 2 Blocks on each side then turn handle it will release most of the pressure i always use my Foot on both sides to put it back on

and one thing Never Give Up ,keep trying

you might need a Big Wrench the Bigger the Wrench the More Pressure to remove it.


HEY!! i just notice that your Belt is in Reverse and Upside Down the Letters are sopose to be on the Right Side!!!

[Malformed]

Jody, who also has a zipr3i and did the stage 2 kit same as me...

said he had the same problem with the clutch bogging down.
the belt was "sticking".

he said he replaced the belt with the kevlar one and its fine now, even with the higher tension (not-stock) springs.

so i think im going to try that...
i need to put another washer on the variator anyway because its stripped past a certain point.

[Elliott]

HEY!! i just notice that your Belt is in Reverse and Upside Down the Letters are sopose to be on the Right Side!!!

Spray WD-40 inside the cluch Port it will stop the sticking!! i did this on mines but make shure you dont get it on the belt A-1 Oil will work all so!!

yours is the same one as my old bike and inside the Clutch is 2 Screews there should be Grease on the Inside now there a Screew which turns left and right!! as the Pulleys Move in and out Spray some in to those holes

thats only if you did not Pass the Stick test.

[Malformed]

yea, i was wondering about the belt.

i just saw this picture.
http://www.provoscooter.com/shop/images/howto/stage1/beltlooseinstalled.jpg

[Elliott]

Yeah thats the Correct way i did that on Mines and it Ran Slugish.

by the way did you remove the restrictor out....

if So let me know where it's kept..

OK! i will type to ya Later.,Malformed keep me up to date on Your Status!

I will help any way i can, I also have a VENTO Brother :D

The Vento Brothers :D

[Malformed]

like i figured....

crank shaft finaly stripped out.
the nut and shaft threads are both stripped. :mad:

someone want to doublecheck the vento parts catalog for me?
just make sure i got the right shaft here.

i think this is what i need:
no / part number / description / price
2 / 15201B01F000 / CRANKSHAFT LH / $30.00

http://vento.com/temp/LISTAS%20DOLARES/ZIP%20R3iT%20(D)/Zip%20R3iT%20Engine%20(D)_files/sheet003.htm

and
no / part number / description / price
19 / 24106B01F000 / washer / $0.13
24 / 15112G02F010 / WASHER SPRING / $0.13
25 / B04031212553 / NUT / $0.25


http://vento.com/temp/LISTAS%20DOLARES/ZIP%20R3iT%20(D)/Zip%20R3iT%20Engine%20(D)_files/sheet007.htm

[Malformed]

i swear, i just keep getting crappy or screwed up parts no matter what i do.
my technomoto variator has about 15 miles on it so far, and its allready showing serious signs of wear.
the rollers are VERY flat, the technomoto variator/rollers suffered more wear in the last 15 miles than my stock rollers/variator suffered in 500 miles.

it was installed correctly, and ive been trying to take it easy on the scooter during break in.
im seriously becoming disapointed.

the plate from the back is allready wearing through.
the stock one shows no signs of wear at all.
http://www.makeitstop.org/scooter/tm-variator%20(1).jpg
http://www.makeitstop.org/scooter/tm-variator.jpg

[Elliott]

Malformed It's Time to take it to the Shop and have them take a look at it to find what's going on....

It seems like you have not Found the Part that is wearing Dont put a new part to you find the Source of the Problem......

Or you will be back where you Started from.

[Zuma88]

i dont like that varaitor for anything it wears out fast and kinda is a pain .

iv been studing up on the doppler race varaitor. looks nice and looks like it will give big incearse. i just sold my zuma so i cant test it right now.

[Malformed]

yea, i was afraid id have problems with the technomoto variator.
its loose and looks cheap.

if anyone knows where i can get a better variator to replace it, i might as well do that.
otherwise, im probably putting the stock one back in, it was working fine before so i dont see any reason for it not being ok to use besides it being a bit more smooth than the technomoto.

[XPS1210]

that wear is normal... Mine is like that as well...

Now I agree, I don't like that variator...

Email erich at sales@provoscooter.com as him about the malossi variator... they are somewhere around $65-75...



There are a lot of us with issues with the techonomoto variator... Soon the brass ring in the middle will fall out! Watch!

[Zuma88]

provo sells good stuff i cant beleave they are still selling that varaitor.

[XPS1210]

you know... almost everyone I have talked to or looked at their site, they sell the technomoto variator...

Now the crazy thing is that I've heard great things from most of the distributers, but have heard a bunch of bad from the customers on this variator...

I think that they just haven't heard the customers feedback enough yet to quit selling them...

I will eventually get the malossi one from provo... Just don't have the cash yet... so I haven't even asked for a price....

If you guys are wanting to get the malossi ones shoot erich an email and request it... He should get a price to you in a couple of days.. as well as let you know an approximate time till it would arrive... could be a month or so as he'd have to order it from malossi directly to get them in stock...

[Davey-boi]

Running the same technomoto variator for 200miles with little wear on the variator itself. The roller wieghts got a lil beat up, but those are just to find out which wieght you need, then you can buy the real roller wieghts. The only problem I had with this variator is that it wouldn't work with other parts (+30% clutch spring) as where the malossi could.

[King Vino]

Eep, Hubby is torn between making a part 4, merging the thread back together in to a perpetual forum or just creating a new forum just for all of Malformed's help!? he says, mah. :) (heehee, he let me post reply cause he's feeding cat)

Queen Vino
(King Vino wife)

[Malformed]

Eep, Hubby is torn between making a part 4, merging the thread back together in to a perpetual forum or just creating a new forum just for all of Malformed's help!? he says, mah. :) (heehee, he let me post reply cause he's feeding cat)

Queen Vino
(King Vino wife)

i dont see much point in doing either.

im going to replace the stripped the crank shaft, and install the kevlar belt i allready ordered.... and it accellerates fine and doesnt tear up the kevlar belt... i should be done with questions.
this is all exactly what Jody did and he is about my weight, and same scooter.
so barring any minor adjustments, it should be good to go after installing the kevlar belt and new crank shaft.

if not, im still going to have to try removing the torque spring (which seems VERY stiff)
if that still doesnt do it, and im still getting excessive roller/variator wear.
i will replace the variator with a mallosi.

i do listen to everyones advice. ;)
i just have to go about it carefully and sometimes differently because of my limitations. either from lack of skill, tools, or money.

[XPS1210]

you know.... not to start another topic or anything... but...


I keep getting a hint that your eating belts...

My scooter litterally shreaded my 1st kevlar belt... There are pics on here if you want to sun a search for "kevlar belts, are they worth the money"...

My stock belt that I replaced it with didn't shread or blow up but it ground away drastically fast.. litterally within a hundred miles was more than 1/4 gone...

Now with a new kevlar belt installed I can hear and feel the variator slipping... I had extremely light weights... Guessing somewhere around 3.5g or so... The belt is starting to fray after litterally 50 miles or less... But as I said, I heard and feel the belt slip...

So I changed the weights to the ones that I got from Erich (provo) which I think are 4.5g... Now I can't ride due to the mass of snow we have... but sitting in the garage, WOT it doesn't smoke the belt like it did... now I don't have any miles on it but I think that might have solved the issue...

Just wanted to once again mention that if your rollers are to light for the set up you are going to have a problem with it not gripping the belt and spinning the variator... never even getting the belt to move in the 1st place...

[Malformed]

it wasnt slipping, im pretty sure of that.
well, if it was it seems like it would be more likely from the belt being stuck on the clutch pully because of how tight it was after putting the new torque spring. (i could barely seperate them with my hands, so i could remove the belt.)

the dust from the belt was allmost all on the clutch end of the case cover, that may not mean much though.

and i didnt have any slippage or excess belt wear untill i had the clutch springs and torque spring installed.
it was fine with the 4.5gram rollers and technomoto variator.
(but i allready said all that before)