New vino 125 engine sputtering

[jpsaxnc]

Hi, I have a new vino 125, it has 60 miles on it, I've been running at 1/3 throttle as per breakin instructions, which is about 35mph., if I try to give it a little more throttle, the engin starts making a sputtering sound, like an ignition miss, any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[waterinthefuel]

I would bring it to the dealer. It's still under warranty.

[Lennox]

its probably "loading-up" from driving so slow..........

[xraydino]

I agree with Lennox. Put in a new plug and open her up. o_o

[Sorrow]

Thats what it is in my opinion as well. We get all kinds of TTR 50 dirtbikes or CRF 50's that won't run after three weeks because the governors on them to keep the kids slow are setup at 1/3 or less throttle. Plugs are so built up they look like they have black tar on them.

[littlebearjan]

Well when I got my Vino, I opened it up all the way, Never followed teh only 1/3 rule because instruction only said no progloned.

[jpsaxnc]

Thank you all for the replys, Yes! loading up, sure sounds like a possibility, I'm a little concerned about trying to get it back to the dealer, because initialy it was delivered to my house, because I did'nt have a learners permit yet. The dealer is about thirty miles away, on a road where people drive 60 mph. with no bicycle lanes, I drove my car to the dealer yesterday to order a service manuel, $84. bucks! ouch. I'll change out the plug, and see if that helps, if not, I'll chance a ride back to the dealer, on the scoot. Thanks again for the replies, this is a great site, and resource! james

[waterinthefuel]

Ouch. James, I have the service manual in PDF format, and I'll give it to you free. You should have made some kind of notice you were looking into one.

I never thought about the loading up thing, because I read your post carelessly. My bad.

[jpsaxnc]

Hi waterinthefuel, Thanks for the offer, they already got my loot!, they wanted to be paid up front to order the manuel for me. Live and learn, oh well. When the guys from the shop delivered the scoot, they said there service guys had "checked it all out" well if this is there idea of "passing the test", I figgure I best take a look myself, even if it is under warrenty. If I can't resolve the problem myself, I'll definately take it back for them to check out. james

[jpsaxnc]

Hi All, Well I bought a new plug, and a battery tender, I have a friend that has ridden and tunned scooters for some years, he told me that with electronic ignition, that the battery needs to be fully charged, to get anywhere close to good preformance, he said that a 12 volt battery at full charge actully puts out about 13.5 to 14 volts, and that the battery needs to be checked with a volt meter to be sure it's at this range, so, I removed the original plug, it had 60 miles on it, the porcilen insulator looked new as well as the electrode, no sgin of fouling, no carbon build up, gap was right, so I installed the new plug, and put the charger on the battery, it showed the battery was at 80% capacity, it took about 3 hours to bring it up to 12 volts (the green light stayed on), I took the scooter out on the road, about 90% of the miss was gone, now it was doing 45mph at 1/3 throttle, where befor it would 35mph, I gave it full throttle was able to hit 53mph, so I'm happy with the result, I think after breakin, with a full charge and tune, it should run nicely. My friend told me that the charging system on the scooter, is only able to maintain the charge level that the battery happens to be at, that if the battery is low, that the charge system does not have the power to bring it up to full charge. Thanks for your help. james

[StepVino]

Hi jp, something still doesn't sound right. I would still take it to the
dealer, have them ride it and feel the left over miss. If they tell you
there's nothing wrong, get something in writing from them that says so.
That way, if something bad happens down the road, it will be harder
for them to blame it on you, and not repair it under warranty. I
probably wouldn't mention that you charged the battery, or anything
else. The more info you give them, the more chance there is that
they could blame something on you. Just tell them it has a slight miss,
fix it. I guess I'm paranoid about dealers too!

[waterinthefuel]

My friend told me that the charging system on the scooter, is only able to maintain the charge level that the battery happens to be at, that if the battery is low, that the charge system does not have the power to bring it up to full charge.


Your friend is wrong. If that were the case eventually we'd all have dead batteries. Think about it. That would mean it would get weaker and weaker and weaker....just like not having a charging system. If it doesn't keep up with the battery then either your battery is junk or too big, or your system is messed up. I've started mine probably 50 times and it's as strong now as the day I bought it. I promise that little battery doesn't have THAT kind of capacity.

[jpsaxnc]

Hi StepVino, Yeah back to the dealer, seems to be the general concensess, at least it's running good enough to get there now! lol.

[jpsaxnc]

Hi Waterinthefuel, Yes!, I see what you are saying, that makes perfect sence, the battery would get weaker and weaker, Hmmm, it did run better with some charge. but even though the miss was reduced, throttle responce beyond 1/2 was slow to come on, and I only weight 120#, also I had ridden it 15 miles the day befor, so why a low battery reading?, I agree, back to the dealer it will go.

[scootertrash]

Just ride the crap out of it.
That should keep the plug clear and will charge the battery.

[David B. brown]

My battery is too weak to turn the starter, but the scoot runs just fine. I've had a replacement battery on back order from Yamaha for two months now. The shop does have a battery for 118 dollars, but I'm holding out for the 39 dollar one from Yamaha. Kick starter works just fine!

[Sorrow]

Use the kickstarter.......!!!!!!! Ride it and charge the battery. Unless your battery is shot the system has ample capabilities to recharge the system. Do it all the time when doing mods and drain the battery out.

[jpsaxnc]

I bought a digital volt meter yesterday, so I could see exactly what the battery voltage was, 13.2 volts, right where it should be! that eliminates a charging system problem. Maybe I can get it to the dealer this weekend.

[waterinthefuel]

I bought a digital volt meter yesterday, so I could see exactly what the battery voltage was, 13.2 volts, right where it should be! that eliminates a charging system problem. Maybe I can get it to the dealer this weekend.

Those are two of the smartest things you could have done. You can't beat digital voltmeters. And let your dealer deal with your engine. That's what warranties are for!!!!

[Lennox]

13.2 volts, right where it should be! that eliminates a charging system problem.

voltage does not give you an accurate state of charge! Amperage is just as important.

You need to check the voltage "under load" Take it to a shop to have this done....

[jpsaxnc]

Hi Lennox, Good call, I did'nt think of that!, Yes, it's "under load", when the miss occurs.

[waterinthefuel]

voltage does not give you an accurate state of charge! Amperage is just as important.

You need to check the voltage "under load" Take it to a shop to have this done....

Although I agree, I would have to ask what "load" you are referring to. The headlight and taillight automatically come on when the engine is running. What additional load would you put it under? All I can think of is a minute load from the spark plug and blinkers, and maybe honking the horn??

On a car it would make sense, but a scooter??

[Lennox]

Although I agree, I would have to ask what "load" you are referring to. The headlight and taillight automatically come on when the engine is running. What additional load would you put it under? All I can think of is a minute load from the spark plug and blinkers, and maybe honking the horn??

On a car it would make sense, but a scooter??

the starter of course..... when using the e-start, 13 volts means nothing.... it can quickly drop to 8v while turning the starter...... make sense?

[jpsaxnc]

I have about 110 miles now, and the power seems to be picking up a little, as the engine runs in, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. The question of how much load on the electrical system? I don't know, But I would not be suprized, if as much as two HP. was required, just to run the alternator. james

[StepVino]

Nahh.. I was surprised when I looked up the conversion.

1HP =~ 746Watts That's a lot of watts.

Even if you have 65W headlight... maybe make it 100W
for everything, still only comes to 0.13HP .

[waterinthefuel]

the starter of course..... when using the e-start, 13 volts means nothing.... it can quickly drop to 8v while turning the starter...... make sense?


Yes, but this load would be irrelevant once the engine is running. It doesn't happen when he first starts it, only once it's underway. And at that point the starter is only a paperweight.

James, it doesn't have an alternator like on a car. It's just a stator (rotor, whatever the name of that thing is LOL). It's a more efficient (as I understand it) way of producing electricity, as you don't have a belt to drive a seperate alternator. Belts and alternators do produce drag and do rob you of a minute amount of power.

[jpsaxnc]

Thanks for the replys, The plug has a nice tan color, which usually means the fuel and air mixture are right, but at the end of the exaust there's powerdry black carbon deposits. Early in the day I tried the top end and the sputter was still there, and speed was difficult to maintain, I charged the battery again in the afternoon, and took the scooter back on the road, still some sputter, but I was able to hold 55mph, and the exaust had a different (a bit louder) and more constant tone, it sure seems like the scooter is running off the battery. The next thing I'll try is disconnecting the battery with the scooter running, and see how it goes. If it dogs down, I'm thinking that maybe a step transformer between the battery and the electrics, with 12 volts in and 15 volts out might work. I hope my service manuel comes soon, I can't wait to read up on this thing. james

[scootertrash]

Isn't your bike still in warranty?

[jpsaxnc]

Hi scootertrash, Yes it's still under warranty, I would like to try learn about it myself, so I have a better understanding of how it all works. Also, at some point, I would like to make some mods, and that's where hands on experience pays off. I may still drag it into the dealer though, if things don't smooth out with a little more running in. james

[scootertrash]

I guess I'm just kind of funny, but when I have something new and in warranty, rather than tampering with the electrical system to "see how it goes" I just have it fixed for free.

[jpsaxnc]

Hi scootertrash, Well, I went to the dealer a week ago, to ask the sevice people what they thought the prob. might be, I was curtious, and told them it was only a couple weeks old, and explained that it had a persistant miss. Well apparently these guys never heard of customer service, they did'nt say (bring it in) the guy stood 15 feet away, looked at me with distain, and said maybe they'ed swap the plug, and ajust the carb slide, as something to try. Yeah, if it was'nt such a hassel to get to the dealer, and back, (30 miles), no public transportation, I'll have to get my son to follow me in, when I can get ahold of him.

[scootertrash]

Yes, it's always a pain to take a vehicle in. I try to take care of some of the minor basics on my own when I can.

I'd advise not doing the battery disconnect experiment.
I've seen it on some older bikes where when the battery is disconnected, and the engine is running, it can fry all the lights and the CDI due to the voltage surge and loss of ground. Don't know if the Vino would do that, but I don't want to find out either.
I'd take it in, ask them to fix it and if you're not happy get on the phone to Yamaha's "800" number

[waterinthefuel]

Please listen to scooter, if the factory sees you have messed with your bike, they can void your warranty!!! Besides doing regular things like oil changes and spark plug changes....I would advise not messing with it until the warranty is up. It won't be hard for them to see you've messed with it, and then you'll have to foot the bill to fix what you did as well as fix what was originally wrong with the bike.

[jpsaxnc]

Thanks for the advice All, I'm not going to mess with it, I have a little over 200 miles on it now. Overall I think it's a really good design, other than the electronic ignition, and California emmision standards. It's to nice to abuse.