A Bizarre problem...

[HungryJoe]

I have a 2004 Vino and recently it has been stolen, but recovered a week later. The only thing visually wrong with it once back is the front fender is cracked and the exhaust pipe is a little banged up, but not so much that it effects the speed. But I've had a problem starting it since I got it back that I can't seem to understand. For one thing I've been kickstarting (battery trouble from theft, haven't been able to replace it yet) it, and most times it starts just fine, but every once in a while it won't start at all, and no matter how hard I try. At first I thought it was a problem with moisture, as it seems every time it won't start it's right after a rain (of course in Florida right now it rains so frequently that ANY time you try to start it it will invariably be right after rain, especially when you've been waiting for the rain to stop so you can ride) except that all day yesterday it had been raining off and on, and I had no problem starting it any time, often right after rain stopped, or it was still sprinkling a little. Now here's the really eerie part: I only have the problem when leaving my work at the end of the day. Any other time it's fine, but today for the third time in a row I've had to leave my scooter locked up behind the shop I work at to come for later. The only possibility I can think of (other than ghosts, of course) is that something involving the heat, since the parking lot of the store isn't covered, and most other places I park are quite shaded. Anyone else have this problem? Any suggestions?

[Davey-boi]

Well bud, I say open her up. Check the transmission assembly and the kick starter. Perhaps th spark plug needs replacing. Ohh, and call in a priest just in case you don't find anything.... physically.....wrong :(

[kit.car]

Mine was a theft recovery and would only start by kick starter...they had popped the fuse on the battery. When they had it hot wired. Did you check the fuse? The popped fuse also messed with the turn signals, they wouldn't blink. I took the battery to the dealer for a charge as stated in the manual, but they snubbed me and said as long as I had a trickle charger of 500mA, I should do it myself :confused: . You should look over the wiring harnesses, take off the headlight assy...look for any splicing or hacking, check the coil wiring too under the floor. You dont mention if the busted your ingnition lock or not...did they drive it around? Or was the damage from the carring it?

Joe

[HungryJoe]

Okay, the plot thickens: it was stolen twice. The first time they just dug out the ignition and drove it off...the problem with the battery I believe is just that it died, since I had to turn it on and off with a screw driver until I replaced the ignition, sometimes it would be left on and I didn't know it. The second time I was ON the scooter when it was stolen, so yeah, they drove it.

[erich]

Sometimes a fouled plug can cause it not to start very easily. Not to plug the website, but we do carry replacement batteries now...

[Lennox]

Well bud, I say open her up. Check the transmission assembly and the kick starter.


What do you think the transmision has to do with the engine firing? Not sure what you meant.?

[marylandmark]

Just a guess in the answer-

The tranny is always on (put your bike on center stand and back wheel should turn slightly if brakes adjusted correctly).

So tranny always on would mean it has to operate correctly for the motor to start up as well- one has to to work in order for the other to work.


Could be wrong and not answering for Davey but that is how I took it.

[Lennox]

sounds to me like fuel or maybe spark issue.

Check your needle valve in carb, different weather (humidity, temp) can cause it to leak more/less. This will flood engine after a while and be a bear to start.

keep us posted!

[vinniereno]

It was happening on my ET4, it started up fine in the morning (even when it was cold) but in the afternoon when leaving work it wouldn't 'bite'.
the only thing I could think of that was different is the sun had been shining on the rear end for a few hours before I left work.
so I started at the back and worked forward.
guess what I found?
the earth lead was loose.
the vino is similar (I have one as well) and it attaches with one of the transmission housing screws.
It's on the top in the middle on the vino.
with my ET, it wasn't 'dangling' it just wasn't tight, and when the sun heated up the transmission housing in the afternoon the expansion of the metal was enough to break the contact.
hope this helps,
bizarre is as bizarre does!
cheer's,
vinnie

[Lennox]

Very interesting. Good find, and good tip. I am glad weather had "something" to do with it! :cool:

[isoscelesjones]

Wow - this thread should be called "When Nature Strikes" or something like that.

[HungryJoe]

That definately sounds like the problem...need more help finding exactly what I'm looking for to tighten though...any pictures on the site that shows what I'm after?


Edited to say:
Oh...do you mean the ground?

[vinniereno]

I don't have a picture but,
down looking at your transmission there is a screw next to the little tab that says Oil 100cm3 then going towards the front of the bike there is a screw next to the oil cap for the transmission then the next one forward has a black electric lead with a brass ring under it.
this is the earth lead from the starter motor.
I've taken the black plastic cover off my transmission (and polished the alloy housing) so I'm not sure if you have a clear view of these screws if the cover is on.
You will be able to see the black wire though, all the way to the starter.
Mine was loose because I'd had the transmission cover off, you may have other issues like it may be the wire is broken or off at the starter motor end.
then again it may be something else, but this is where I'd start.
good luck,
cheers,
vinnie

[HungryJoe]

Well I had trouble starting it again this morning, so I moved it onto my porch (in case it rained later when I wanted to work on it) and got a ride to what I had to do...when I came back I checked the screw with the wire and it looked fine, but I un screwed it a little and adjusted the wire and tightened it and it started fine. But now again it's not starting, and I tried readjusting the screw and wire, but it doesn't help any.

[vinniereno]

It definitely sounds electrical, how about your ignition switch?
Did it get all messed up when the bike was stolen?
maybe you have a loose wire there.
It sounds like you have a bad contact somewhere between the battery-ignition-starter motor.
maybe you should take as many panels off as you can (side panels front of seat and floor, it's quite easy) and start tracing wires and looking for bad connections.
failing that it sounds like a trip to the shop.
again,
good luck,
cheers,
vinnie.
p.s. will it kickstart with the ignition on?

[HungryJoe]

OK, more info. By the way, I am not HungryJoe, I'm his dad, helping out.
We replaced the battery with a new one. Still having the same intermittent starting trouble. Today it wouldn't start using the starter but would start kicking it. The starter wouldn't even 'turn over'. Sometimes, though, the starter cranks the engine but it won't start as if there's no spark. Waiting for the starter to work but the engine not, so we can check for a spark. It's looking like there's more than one problem.
Consarn these dadblamed contraptions! (I just added that to embarass my son)

[HungryJoe]

More trouble...it's still not starting all the time...the last time it wouldn't start (about three or so hours ago) I tried wiggling the ground wire: didn't work. I tried wiggling the spark plug cap...didn't work. I tried taking off the gas cap (because we thought maybe there was a problem with the suction...I'd had problems previousy with that when I used a different gas cap) tried starting without gas cap...started right up. Now again it's not starting, and I tried all three of these things, and none of them worked.

[HungryJoe]

Does anybody have any other possible ideas as to what to try? I'm at my wit's end...the problem has gone from being occasional to all the time...It hasn't started in over a day after many many attempts...I'm not getting any clear signs towards what to look at to try and fix, and when I try to look at SOMETHING, I can't see anything wrong...I don't know if I can find someone locally to work on it, and if I do I don't know if I can afford it. I'm also right in the middle of a move so money is tight.

[Lennox]

know anyone with the same scooter to swap parts from???

Electrical gremlins suck!!

[Bad*Brad]

Where do you live Joe ?

[King Vino]

It's refreshing to see something different on here.

[HungryJoe]

I'm in Tampa...I think I've got the problem taken care of...but we think there's something wrong in the fuel line...I gotta rev it up a LOT for it to start.