Nitrous just for giggles...

[scott400f]

Has anyone ever put one of those Ebay NOS kits on a Zuma? What did you find the results to be?

Just curious kind of a little novelty project.

Scott o_o

[str8dum]

Well considering you have no way to increase the fuel flow (like you would with a car) and most scoot carbs are very finicky to begin with, I wouldnt even do it. If you are spraying enough nitrous to feel an effect, you are probably about to blow your motor from being too lean.

[larry-new]

Hehehehe....There was a time when I needed a lot of dental work, and told my Dentist I'd tough it...no Novocaine (I think it was when I was bicycle racing...I was used to pain, and wanted to keep my body pure...)

There was also another time when, lo, I needed a lot of dental work again ( I now have the cost of an SUV in my mouth). THIS time, I told the dentist, "Gas me up....let's feel good about this...! It was, I must say, a rather mellow experience for several weeks..

Now they want to use my cherished NOX and feed it to my Zuma.....well...

I NOMINATE JERED to try this, in the relative safety of the far North, and report back to us...hell, we could even chip in..
.I'm good for $5... [ There's enough Nitrogen in there to render it fairly safe, unless the wheelie bars touch it off....on the way to low orbit.]

Hehehehe...(residual sense memory...)

Larry

[smokin]

Don't waste your time or money. That is a dry kit and you will blow you motor. Trust me man I have done nitrous systems before and a dry kit will blow your motor.
What you want is a wet kit that way you know exactly how much nitrous and how much gas is going in there so that you get a perfect air/fuel ratio.They make wet kits for scooters. Only bad part is that a wet kit will burn a serious hole in your pocket. About 550$.

PM me if you want the site to The last resort of tuning. "Just remember you have to have some super strong parts that can take the added power,heat,and stress" (Watercooled would be good if you are doing a nitrous setup.)

[XPS1210]

I'm not interested in it... IMO nos is poor mans power and normally causes damage...

I'll let someone else try it out for us...

[larry-new]

JERED..........

The Pope didn't have a choice , either....

L.


I'm not interested in it... IMO nos is poor mans power and normally causes damage...

I'll let someone else try it out for us...

[XPS1210]

hahaha!

[PreBug308]

Quick question for you guys. As noticed, I have spotted some "30 shot" NOS kits on ebay made from portable co2 bike pumps, and plastic fish tank line. Does anyone here know what kind of fittings and line are used and where I could pick some up. I have the co2 pump thing, and 8 gram Nitrous cartridges, just need to know what fittings and line is needed.

Any help is appreciated,
Andy

[smokin]

Like I said in the other thread. Do not waste your time or money and your motor at that. Those are dry kits and there is no way ofk nowing how much nitrous is going in there so therefore you will lean out and that will be the end of your motor.

If you seriously have the urge to do it. I suggest you make your carb super rich when you know you are gona use it or else your motor will be done in no time.

[JJONES660]

Don't waste your time or money. That is a dry kit and you will blow you motor. Trust me man I have done nitrous systems before and a dry kit will blow your motor.
What you want is a wet kit that way you know exactly how much nitrous and how much gas is going in there so that you get a perfect air/fuel ratio.They make wet kits for scooters. Only bad part is that a wet kit will burn a serious hole in your pocket. About 550$.

PM me if you want the site to The last resort of tuning. "Just remember you have to have some super strong parts that can take the added power,heat,and stress" (Watercooled would be good if you are doing a nitrous setup.)
JUST WANTED TO ADD...

not all dry kits add just nitrous...most dry kits utilize the carbuerator or a fuel rail to pressurize the existing fuel system. in doing so with a higer fuel pressure you can add the extra fuel necessary to reach an optimum air.fuel ratio...some dry NOS kits on cars use a line to pressurize the fuel from say 40psi to around 80psi example;mustangs...or some cars have such sensitive mass air sensors that the fuel injectors will compensate on their own...

in the carbuerated world a company called boondockers has developed a great way to increase the fuel by using the existing carbuerators float bowl to supply additional fuel...what it does is adds pressure into the float to "push" the additional fuel needed into the airstream via the main jet...so instead of drawing a vacuum of the main the main is acctually pressurized...and this pressure applied to the floatbowl is adjustable to maintain ideal air/fuel ratios...its all i tuning...you can use nitrous on almost any internal combustion engine with proper setup/tuning... :luvdoc:

IVE had nitrous on both my 4wheelers and my old stang...its great stuff...just gotta use caution and use your brain before you hit the button!

[PreBug308]

Love the pope joke. I'm willing to try it, I have all the stuff except for the tubing/fittings and instructions. If someone could fill me in on what needs to be bought, I'd give it a whirl. I have the bike co2 pump and Nitrous cartridges.

[pinkymingeo]

Nitrous is OK, but why not go alcohol instead of gas? You need a bigger fuel tank, but it'll work.

[hybridrazz]

What kind of gains could be expected with the alcohol?.

[XPS1210]

top fuel drag cars run alcohol... it's much more potent then gasoline... but need to make sure the engine can stand the added stress from the fuel...

[florida derbi rocket]

Top Fuel cars run about 10 to 20% Alcohol...the rest is Nitromethane..the Alcohol helps cool the Cylinders..Besides..its in the regs ...they had too many explosions a few years ago..when they were trying to run on 100% Nitro...Hey in the 60's they were sneaking "Hydrazine" into the Tanks..(a Rocket Fuel) :D John

[pinkymingeo]

My suggestion was tongue-in-cheek. You can run 100% alcohol and get more power. Has less specific energy than gas, but you burn a whole lot more of it. Giant main jet. Engine will stay very cool, but a 1.5 gallon tank won't cut it.

[larry-new]

NONONONONO>>>>Anybody that VOLUNTEERS for this insane trial will probably end up sniffing the stuff.....just make sure you route it to the carburetor, not into your helmet....hehehe...

L.

p.s. You can see this setup on ebay...search for yamaha zuma...


Love the pope joke. I'm willing to try it, I have all the stuff except for the tubing/fittings and instructions. If someone could fill me in on what needs to be bought, I'd give it a whirl. I have the bike co2 pump and Nitrous cartridges.

[PreBug308]

I kno what the set-up looks like, I just need to know what the fittings and tubing are. LIke part numbers or where to find something like that. These are all "fish tank line" home made kits.

[911elite]

well the Holly band nos will not blow your motor but isn't cheap but sure as heck speeds you up.

[JJONES660]

nitrous bottle pressures run from about 600psi -1100 psi on average in a tank...so i hope the kit your interested in doesnt actually use air lines for an aquarium because i dont see it possible to maintain steady pressure on the jets...unless the aquarium style lines are to pressurize the float only which uses a very small amount of Psi...about the same as blowing through a straw is all it takes to get the main jet pumping...

[911elite]

its runs through a 2nd gas line in to your intake and is only at around 250psi.

[florida derbi rocket]

JJones..the nitrous kits he is refering to look like whip cream "Whippets" and use a tire inflater for the delivery....sometimes I think we (scooter people) arent seeing this for what it really is..It's probably meant for humans ..not scooters..IMO .. ;wink) --o John

[marylandmark]

"Whippets"

Ahh... YUMMY back in the day!

[911elite]

hmm have you went to holly and looked at there small motors nos kits?

it built for small dirt bike's and other small 2 and 4 stroke motors.

[XPS1210]

there are kits that sell for $500 to $600... I'm pretty sure these are the ones 911elite is refering to...

where the others are talking about the CHEAP, SCAM style on eBay... For under $100...

the difference is quality, quality control, and what really is in those CO2 tanks anyway?! I'd laugh if you guys are bidding on CO2 tanks with CO2 in them...

You know, leaning the engine out is dangerous but does the same effect as NOS, just not on the large scale.... but if you shot CO2 into the intake... I bet it'd feel like a NOS boost due to the lean mixture it would cause...

someone should try it to see...

[911elite]

my friend that has a 01 honda elite sr with 104cc kit and all had it and and used about 6 bottles worth and we disasembled his top end and every thing was great, only thing i notice on his is a bluesh color on his exhuast gasket.

[911elite]

i should say that was of the good nos not that ebay crap.

[Lennox]

blasting the intake with co2 would cool down the air quite a bit...... kinda like the coolers on race cars

[wideopen01]

I'm not interested in it... IMO nos is poor mans power and normally causes damage...

I'll let someone else try it out for us...

Yep u got it jered NOS is a POOOOOR mans power... ;no

[cant drive 55]

I fully agree with wideopen and jered on this one. NOS is only for those people who just cant tune their scooter right and get it going fast enough.

NOS IS ONLY FOR THOSE WHO WANT AN EASY WAY OUT AND WANT TO DESTROY THEIR MOTOR!!

[Lennox]

no, your all wrong.......... NOS is for people who want to destroy their braincells!!!! :jesta:

[str8dum]

Poor mans power? LOL. Racing for pink slips and I bet you'd change your tune. Ever feel a 200shot direct port kit? Nitrous is for drag racing. Ignorant people say poor mans power and you'll blow your motor. You're 100% more likely to blow your motor using an aftermarket turbo or SC. A 200 shot kit and parts would be 1/5 of what a tricked out turbo would cost and get you to sub 11 sec passes much quicker. And if you are at the track alot or street race, your stupid not to have it (kinda like NFL or baseball players not on roids)

[marylandmark]

Ignorant people say poor mans power and you'll blow your motor....... A 200 shot kit and parts would be 1/5 of what a tricked out turbo would cost

Both sides of the fence? :rolleyes: If you want to add 200HP to a motor the cheapest/aka poor mans way to go would be NOS.

You're 100% more likely to blow your motor using an aftermarket turbo or SC.

Switch where you are buying your turbo or superchargers from is that is that case!!! The NOS thing MOST of the time is you have some kid that puts it on his civic without upgrading anything else to handle the extra power. A proper built and tuned turbo or sc motor will last much, much longer than "just" adding NOS!

[XPS1210]

NOS... is poor mans power... Because... most people who install it...

Do it on a stock motor with a coffee can installed for an exhaust...

Then the cheap (the thrifty shopper way) kit they buy for $200 from ebay with no means of regulating it or anything...

then they hit the boost button and BOOM! there goes the engine....

Hence... poor mans power...

[smokin]

NOS... is poor mans power... Because... most people who install it...

Do it on a stock motor with a coffee can installed for an exhaust...

Then the cheap (the thrifty shopper way) kit they buy for $200 from ebay with no means of regulating it or anything...

then they hit the boost button and BOOM! there goes the engine....

Hence... poor mans power...

I got to agree with you on that one Jered. Poor mans power if your doing it that way.
On the other hand if your motor was full blown (top of the line parts) then I could understand someone getting a nitrous kit.
I think my bike will be plenty fast and once I'm done with it in another couple days, there will be nothing else left for me to buy and everything will be tuned to it's max.
I have no doubt that it could easily handle a nitrous setup.
Not that I would hardly ever use it if at all, but I wouldn't mind having it setup just to know it's there for that extra boost if I want it. :smokin:

[JJONES660]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/JJONES660/YFZ%20PICS%20UTAH/utahpictureseasterweekendjason013.jpg

CALL IT POOR MANS POWER IF YOU WANT

but arent scooters poor mans motorcycles??? :naught:

well ive used nitrous on most my toys and can say that my engines have been modified with intakes cams porting exhaust and high compression pistons...nitrous is just the icing on the cake ....both my quads make 50 or more horse at the rear tire and adding another 15 or 20 shot of nitrous on top is just plain violently aggressive...claims that nitrous is the poor mans horse or that it will automatically blow your motor is just an un informed statement...

cheap ebay kits i agree are not a wise choice...

the difference between N20(nitrous) and Co2...is that the c02 does not offere the same characteristics...nitrous is 33% pure oxygen and the oxygen molecules do not release form the N nitrogen until over 500 degrees during the burn process...the earths atmosphere is comprised of about21-22% oxygen and about 78% nitrogen...same ingredients as nitrous but the nitrous has a better oxygen content...MORE oxygen=more gas to burn...more gas to burn =more horsepower....we cant run straight oxygen injection cause it would be similer to a gas torch...

anyways...match your fuel to your oxygen and keep a motor stoich and its a great way to make drag racing horsepower and have a rideable motor the rest of the time...many supercharged or turboed engines are not the most drivable in general...thats the beauties of nitrous...its there when you need it...

and what puts more stress on parts?

a turbo that adds 100 horse 100% of the time?
or nitrous that adds 100 horse about 2% of the time?

something to think about ::handleba

[smokin]

Well put. :llThat's also why I think nitrous is great to have on the side(there when you need it),not like turbo when it's major stress on your motor at all times.
Just don't buy one of those little Ebay toys get the real deal and you'll be good as long as you know what your doing. Nice raptor by the way. :smokin:

[marylandmark]

I got to agree with you on that one Jered. Poor mans power if your doing it that way.
On the other hand if your motor was full blown (top of the line parts) then I could understand someone getting a nitrous kit.


Well put- my opinion comes from most of the applications I have seen is someone adding NOS and that's it... A motor that can handle NOS is a whole different ballgame.

A 500HP motor on all motor is better than a 300HP motor with a 200HP shot of NOS. Both put out 500HP but I would rather have the 500HP all motor anyday.. It is built to run 500HP- all the time. A 300HP motor is built to run 300HP- almost doubling the HP can't be good for it....

[PreBug308]

Actually, a turbo isn't 100% because it engages after 3500 rpm on most cars. But good points either way, and fully do agree. Wanted to pop the nitrous on the scoot instead of paying loads of cash for things like overrange kits. But I guess I won't, we'll see.

[IdriveaZumaII]

NOS is just a turbo or sc in a bottle. if i did anything to my scooter it would but a alcohol/water injection. i mean, it cools the motor down(which is what zumas need), cools the air charge, making it denser, making the explosion bigger. and it keeps the inside of the motor nice and clean.

when i did meth/h2o injecion on my ninja it ave me close to a 22% gain, cut my air intake charge temp in half and when i pulled the motor for my end of season rebuild, the pistons, and valves looked brand new.

only concern, 2 stroke the air/fuel doesnt go right into the cylinder, it goes into the crank first. h2o might not allow for a good of lubrication. - IDRIVE

[JJONES660]

NOS is just a turbo or sc in a bottle. if i did anything to my scooter it would but a alcohol/water injection. i mean, it cools the motor down(which is what zumas need), cools the air charge, making it denser, making the explosion bigger. and it keeps the inside of the motor nice and clean.

when i did meth/h2o injecion on my ninja it ave me close to a 22% gain, cut my air intake charge temp in half and when i pulled the motor for my end of season rebuild, the pistons, and valves looked brand new.

only concern, 2 stroke the air/fuel doesnt go right into the cylinder, it goes into the crank first. h2o might not allow for a good of lubrication. - IDRIVE

IM CURIOUS

what do you mean by water injection??? are you reffering to injecting water as lubrication???? ;no seems kinda crazy...but maybe im missinterpretting...

as for meth or alchohol i dont have much 1st hand experience...i do know that alky evaportates very quickly and can make a mess of a carbuerator if it isnt ran dry frequently...in a 4stroke it also leaves behind quite a mess in the oil cause it passes by the rings...

an alky scooter would be cool...but a pain in the arse IMO...

do these scooters really get hot enough to the point were you would need alky??? im new to the scooter scene and got mine doing 53 last night with the wind at my back...but im thinking im a little on the lean side with the 80 main jet...
anyways as for nitrous...forged piston is always good and a motor being in a healthy state of tune...a well tuned engine even in stock form can handle a decent bit of nitrous...but on these scooters i dont think you would ever be able to use more than a 5 shot...a 2 shot being about perfect LOL...man these things have wimpy motors compared to the bigger yammis :dance:

BTW thanks for the compliment...that is actually not my raptor ...that is a 2004 yamaha yfz450 quad...449ccs and has a little bit of everything done to it including nitrous (bottle on front) shes at about 50 rear wheel horse and i love it...i built the entire quad from the ground up...i had a piston failure in it 2 months ago and had to rebuild the engine throughout...these little 2smokes are pretty simple by comparison...makes me wannna tear deep into the ZUMA :naught:

anyways if anyone is crazy enough to nitrous a scooter its me...so keep tuned...and we will affectionately refer to it as the race bike! ::handleba

[IdriveaZumaII]

by injecting a very fine mist of alkly and h2o mix into the intake, it cools the intake charge down. if the air going into the motor is cooler it is also denser. if the charge is denser you can fit more air and fuel into a the same space. this would make a bigger explosion, therefore translating into more hp. i was saying i dont know if this will work tho butcuse a 2cycle relies on the fuel to lubricate crankcase and whatnot. if a very small amount of water and alky is introduced, how would that affect the lubrication?

as for nos making the scooter run lean. hy couldnt you simple just turn the choke on when you nos turns on? as in have a nos button also wired to a relay wich turns the choke on as the nos is on adding more fuel. - IDRIVE

[Lennox]

there is a member on here that has the alky/h20 injection....his name is Daytona..something......

here he is (http://www.provoscooter.com/vbull/member.php?u=330)

[florida derbi rocket]

My basic Chemistry says that most alcohol has enough water in it to use straight Alky......dont know what blend these people are using...70%....90%....denatured or wood alcohol?? john

[str8dum]

And oh yeah, a littly FYI. Nitrous Oxide is NOT NOS ;no . Thats what ricers and laymen say. NOS is a system. Its N20, so in the real world (ie any enthusiast car forums) you'll sound much more credible if you discuss it as N2O

:nerd: :sunny:

[IdriveaZumaII]

NOS isnt a system its a company. Nitrous Oxide Systems. and i was using that term because it is universal, as soon as some one says NOS everyone knows what you're talking about. whether you call it juice, Nitrous, using the bottle, NOS , N2O, burn baby burn, NAWZ(hate that one) , or whetever; you're still talking about the same thing .- IDRIVE

[Lennox]

kinda like Kleenex and Scotch tape?

[JJONES660]

XEROX MACHINE ;)

WELL you learn something new everyday...i had no clue about people injecting water with nitrous..as for lubrication...good old oil works for me...water and oil dont mix IMO but it may work...who knows..i know the guys who run alky in quads dont mix water...its just straight alky and alky runs very very cool on its own without the water...i wonder if the water injection is something external for cooling????? i just dont see how water could help inside the combustion chamber any...its not explosive and doesnt mix well with gasolines...maybe the same isnt true with alky but alky on its own runs very cool and does net around 20% gains typically...but a mess to clean afterwards without proper upkept maintenence...

see alchohol evaporates very very quickly as it enters the carb...during the process it cools the intake (not as drastically as nitrous) and requires a buttload more fuel than standard gasoline...the great part about it is that it mixxes very well into the intake stream due to the vaporization...so it can burn clean but it burns cool...many dragsters with cars actually block off coolant bays in the engine to try and get there blocks warmer even...engines still need to be hot to a cetain extent to have proper lubrication and sealing properties... very interesting stuff...too much braindamage for me...id rather get power out of a well built engine...and then add some nitrous for the occasional kick...

took my zuma offroading last night! that was fun!

[idahoscoot]

from what i understand a 50/50 mix is what all the tuners are using in the import scene for water injection but as for the water part i understand the gas adhears to the water dispersing it on the outside of the water droplet allowing a more compleat combustion and the added benifet of cooling from both the water and alky but i to woulnt use it on a 2stroke water in the oil naaaaa not for me :)

[marylandmark]

I am switching sides- Nitrous/using the bottle/NOS/N2O/burn baby burn/NAWZ for everyone!!! All of ya go get it - it is FUN!

Just let me know how it turns out...

[larry-new]

Water injection in Autos was popular in the 50's...it controlled the burn, and, as has been said, did something with the dispersion of gas..

For those researchers out there, JC Whitney might still carry kits for auto carburetors.

L.

[IdriveaZumaII]

lol, as far as nitrous, i really dont think it's worth it on such a small bike. after some research, 50/50 h2o alky injection wont work well on a 2cycle. so i did some more research and found out that some competition chainsaws use very small turbo chargers. 2 cycle 78cc turbo saws have the same power as a 138 cc n/a saw, but alot lighter and smaller. that might be something to look into. i saw a razz with a turbo on another site i belong to.- IDRIVE

[JJONES660]

well i researched a bit and spoke to some and sounds like under turbo applications and other areas it is used with alky injection

learn something new everyday...however it sounded like it isnt something designed for a 2smoke...

i think nitrous would be sweet on a zuma...it would be like a whole second engine kicking in! :cylon:

well i might have to delay my personal scooter project as i have some $$$ to spend on one of my 4wheelers first!

oh well i guess ill live with 40mph

[PreBug308]

What's this with turbo's on scooters? Something I would DEFINATELY give a whirl. Blow off valves going (pshhhhhhhhhhhhhh) on scooters....sweet!

[XPS1210]

on a 2 stroke engine.. a turbo or supercharger would only lean the engine and cause engine failure...

[911elite]

yep. a few years ago in 2000 the priggo jet force 2 stroke was super charge but it was a 125cc engine and took it fine but this required alot of extra wieght and a very crowded engine area.

[JJONES660]

on a 2 stroke engine.. a turbo or supercharger would only lean the engine and cause engine failure...

why is it that the common posts seem to be

nitrous
or
superchargers
or
turbos

will run the engine lean and automatically cause failures...if you indeed were to make a turbo application on a zuma or anything you would want to convert the fuel delivery system to a programmable fuel injection system to compensate the fuel chores....engines only run lean when the tuner does not compensate with extra fuel...

if you add air...you add fuel...

now on a side note the cost of a supercharger or a turbo would cost more than the scooter itself to do it the right way....it would be cool...but very costly...nitrous isnt all that cheap eitherbut far cheaper than the other two sources

BTW..we just did a full mod 70cc vino at the shop i work at and it hauls the mail pretty good...

i however have decided to stick with what ive got and am going to try and get 50+mph with a pipe/ open intake...milling the head and slight exhaust port modifications...oh yeah and one of them kits that increase the CVT output by 22%....

later

[marylandmark]

oh yeah and one of them kits that increase the CVT output by 22%....

Explain more please?

Thanks man!

[XPS1210]

no kidding... on a Zuma... the stock carb type set up... a turbo or super charger will cause issues....

if you really want to spend the time and money to upgrade to fuel injection... sure it'll work... however good luck....

[JJONES660]

no kidding... on a Zuma... the stock carb type set up... a turbo or super charger will cause issues....

if you really want to spend the time and money to upgrade to fuel injection... sure it'll work... however good luck....
well that may be but there aint to many folks out there that turbo carbs...not for daily driving anyways...fuel injection would be a must...but like i said..waste of money on a zuma

as for the 22% i think it changes the diameters of the wheels in the CVT...so when the clutches are all the way out the ratio gives 22% more speed...like regearing a dirtbike or quad...it wil take some lowend but give topend...somebody said already i wouldnt like it...i wonder how fast a zuma can go with stock setup???if the motor could turn it of course...50 maybe???

[XPS1210]

upgearing a cvt isn't the same as upgrading a standard tranny...

You can upgear a CVT tranny scooter and loose top end... and acceleration...

Just depends on the power the engine makes...

[JJONES660]

maybe what i was seeing is similar to what is offered here at provo scooter...that shaft out put with the gears on it...i would imagine it just has a different gear count...but i think im gonna ixnay that idear....