Metrakit Stage III

[marylandmark]

Just wanted to get some opinions on the Mertakit Stage III 18HP SP setup (http://www.provoscooter.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=36_37&products_id=119) ...

MK fully adjustable race clutch w/springs
MK 21mm carb
MK race-ported SP 70cc cylinder/piston kit
MK SP pipe
carbon fiber reeds
6 sets of rollers to see what works best

Crank- Derbi rep thinks I should get the MK SP crank as well. The dealer said that the stock crank won't twist with 18HP. Why would I spend $300 more for the crank installed if I don't need to? "Sounds" like I need it from what I have read- why do all that work and not the crank? Sorry to use you as an example, but Angelfire did all but the crank and that is what broke...

Metrakit- sounds like the are a good company. I am hoping with that said, if I go this route my bike should be fairly reliable even with such a radical motor? Dealer says I won't have to tweak it every other night when I want to ride and so on- he will tune it to rock and roll and I won't have to touch it ever again..... (He offers a "free" tune up at 1K miles to make sure everything seats right and tuned right and some other junk..)

[florida derbi rocket]

MM..Metrakit is a good company...they are down the street from the Derbi building in Barcelona Spain. when I talked to the west coast Derbi Factory parts rep..(before they closed for integration into Piaggio)..He liked the 18hp kit..said it was important to have a Pipe "Tuned to the Cylinder"...not just mix and match..which is what everybody does out there...That is the Hand-made pipe in the Kit. If Your dealer does do this..get them to agree to spend some tuning time with you..WHILE YOU ARE THERE...I dont believe in that.."Here ..its just right..You'll LOVE it!!"..kinda get you out the door mentallity..I think they should have tried the rollers while you were there with your stage 1 kit......The Metra Kit Crank was a Ghost for me.... :ghost: I searched and asked about it...but got no responses...But I knew a lot of people wont mess with Derbi Parts. Just my Thoughts. anyway..Im still new to this..but I do think Ive taken an Atlantis the farthest down than anyone on the forum..Frame..Parts in bags..etc :p John

[marylandmark]

..said it was important to have a Pipe "Tuned to the Cylinder"...not just mix and match..which is what everybody does out there...That is the Hand-made pipe in the Kit.

:confused:

I bought the SP instead of the Ecologic/Handmade because it was better for the 70cc kit?

The "SP pipe" is matched to the "SP" 70cc kit I thought?

[florida derbi rocket]

on the website the Ecologic...the SP...and the Handmade are different..At least thats my interpretation...check it out..

[marylandmark]

Where at?

I thought that the Ecologic is in the "Handmade Series"- look at this link. (http://www.metrakit.es/?go=jN7uAYLx/oIJaWVWCrgLD8jzj8lXL/0RGI/wILLr4CmHRskuxO5wP5YlN7dt7DUkESvpzi4=)

I am still searching to see what the difference between the pipes are:

SP= ???
Handmade=??
Pro Race=??
MK=?? (looks like a sleeper pipe- looks stock)

If you look under metrakit.es and go to "tuning options" it only list the Ecologic for the Atlantis, the "SP" is listed for the GP1... My dealer said the "SP" was a better pipe with upgrade options (read 70cc kit) where the "Handmade" was a good pipe but limited if I wanted to go with the 70cc in the future...

I am learning so I don't know? ::handleba

ps- I already have the SP pipe so the link to the kit is not really exactly what I am getting, just was pluggin for Erich.. :yippy:

[marylandmark]

Ordered my kit last night...

Metra Kit 18 HP SP Kit includes;

Carburetor 21mm $ 136
Cylinder/Piston Kit $ 265
Adj Cluch $ 75
4 Gram Roller $ 15
Carbon Fiber Reed $ 25
$ 516
10% Discount <51.60>
$ 465.40
labor 250.00
$715.40
tax 23.27

[marylandmark]

Ordered my kit last night... Should be in stock next week and working on firming up an install date as I type.....

[marylandmark]

Can someone pipe in on the crank issue please.. see 1st post in this thread please...

part of me is do it all and do it right the 1st time and get it over with, however if the stock crank is good to go then why replace it? I has 12 miles on it so not like it is "old" yet...

[florida derbi rocket]

MM..I think if you ride sensible..like you say you do..not WOT..and zipping around attracting cops..the stock crank should be good for now...I have one on my bench that the Rod bearings ground up..This was hidden until I had it pressed and seperated...Im still in Crank Limbo land..I still havent gotten mine yet (10 days now) so I cant brag about a Polini Evo..(I will believe it when I see it)..I would occasionally check for play..Per Pinky..side to side is ok. any front/aft play..and something is bad (main Bearings)....Oh..A full circle crank creates a lot less vibration than the stock counterweighted one..

[marylandmark]

MM..I think if you ride sensible..like you say you do..not WOT..and zipping around attracting cops..

Don't read too much into that.. ;)

WOT is good thing- acting like a fool is not..


A full circle crank creates a lot less vibration than the stock counterweighted one

Is that what the difference is? Any strength issues? Explain more? I sent dealer and email to see what he says as well...

[marylandmark]

What my dealer told me when I emailed "Why get a MK crank if the stock one won't break?"

Why a MK Crank..... More Horsepower, more torque, more RPM, more all around power with a ton of depth..... ie: when you slow down then hit it again there is NO lag. It's A LOT of work and Chris isn't convinced it's worth it based on the related cost. Heck, you are talking about pumped up to a 90 with a strong crank.... yha it's more but what you are talking about is souping up a 50 to act like a 150 does with very little work.

Wouldn’t do it unless the engine was blown up or I wasn't paying someone for their time. LOTS OF WORK. Complete tear down splitting case and all. Were you racing 90cc class YHA. Save that portion of your money and buy the GP-1 250 later this year.

I sent him back saying I am spending $X already, why not "get it done" for $X amount more- almost like going this far, why not go all the way!

I thought adding the crank would put me in a "no worry about nothin" bike? It sounds like this would make it more radical which could mean "more reliable challenged"?

[florida derbi rocket]

Well..I wish one of the Senior Tuners would jump in..But also...there is an advantage to the Crankcase volume being taken up..(stock crank has "Lobes"..kinda like a steam Locomotive wheel).....so we have #1 less vibration.....#2 Stronger Design..Full circle being usally a Full race...#3.. Less volume......I have a 10mm ordered..but a lot of people go for the 12mm and order a 12mm piston wrist pin size for more durability...John

[XPS1210]

Don't know what to say... a replacement crank is probably better in the long run then the stock one... No matter what, I can't see it hurting unless they screw it up...

[marylandmark]

Responce from dealer:



Crank is doing essentially just that, all around increase in performance. Not so much making the foundation stronger, but yes that to. More the Performance aspect itself. (I had asked him if it would make the bike "stronger" as in not break or if it was more performance oriented)

You are correct if the jump was merely $250 more. (I asked him why not go ahead and do it- $725 w/o crank vs. $1K w/crank but he is saying it would be more like $500 more for a total of $1200+)It would be +/- $500 depending on how quickly it progresses. But, yes I'll call when in and then that will give you time to contemplate the idea further. Don't get me wrong..... THat would be a REAL strong/fast scooter with the Crank just not sure worth it in long run.

[XPS1210]

Mark, get your hands dirty... do the install yourself! It's cheaper.. and fun to play with these things...

[florida derbi rocket]

Mark..If you do the Crank Install..PM Lennox or I..he taught me an Awesome trick!!..anyone doing a Crank install should do this..Heating..and freezing..works For Bearings also..They "DROP" right in...interference fit is canceled..!!... :worship: Lennox :worship: ..

[marylandmark]

HAHAHAH-

Me and tools? YEA RIGHT! They seem fair and since I bought my scoot from them the labor rate is $25/hour on actual time worked. No bad compared to the $75/hour the Yammy dealer charges and that is by the book- as in even if it is an 8 minute job he charges the 1.5 hours the book calls for...

You should know by now my motto is "Why do some thing yourself when you can pay someone to do it for you" ::handleba

I resigned to the fact a long time ago that I would be rich if I weren't so lazy...

[marylandmark]

I think I am correct in saying that the crank will give me more performance, not necessarily make my scooter more reliable or the motor "bullet proof".

I told the dealer I wanted throttle response as equal or better than my stock Zuma and a 65-70MPH top speed. He said that out of the hole, it will blow my Zuma away and I should see 65-70MPH without a doubt. He is willing to buy my scoot back if that doesn't happen going with the package he is selling me which doesn't include a new crank. Erich's Stage III (http://www.provoscooter.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=36_37&products_id=119) doesn't come change out the crank either..

Provo's Stage III (http://www.provoscooter.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=36_37&products_id=119) is a little different- I am using the SP pipe instead of the Ecologic and I am adding on the adjustable race clutch.

[florida derbi rocket]

You were right about the pipes..but I dont see anything on the Euro sites about the "Ecologic".But Im sure its the handmade....They are in this order....pro Race....SP...Handmade..the SP is a better pipe..do you know what Kind of Metrakit crank you are getting?..I found 4 choices... the standard....the MK.....the SP.....and the Pro.....Good Luck Bro .. o_o John

[marylandmark]

I am not going to get the crank- I thought it would make my motor "stronger" as in not as "reliablility challenged". Changing the crank is some thing that is done for the performance you get out of it, not to make your motor "stronger". It will make it stronger, however that was the only reason I would change it- not really the extra performance. All in all, not worth the extra $500 for the crank for me- I will be getting awesome take off and 65-70MPH top end without it. The crank would give me a better motor, however the extra $500 would be better spent on other things than that.

[florida derbi rocket]

Yea..I wasnt selling you on one..Yours is Quite NEW!! ;) John

[marylandmark]

Yea..I wasnt selling you on one..Yours is Quite NEW!! ;) John

Nah- I didn't take it like that and didn't mean to sound snotty if I did Bro!

Me= clueless how any of this stuff works and don't really want to know more than I have to. I just wanted to know what the crank did- made the motor "stronger" so it would not break or gave it performance. I am good to go with the performance I am getting without replacing the crank, however didn't want to end up like Angelfire (sorry bro!) and my scoot breaking down right after all this other work was done to it is all.

Mine has 12 miles on it so should hold up is what popular opinion says right now- hope it holds true!! :cool:

[XPS1210]

HAHAHAH-

Me and tools? YEA RIGHT! They seem fair and since I bought my scoot from them the labor rate is $25/hour on actual time worked. No bad compared to the $75/hour the Yammy dealer charges and that is by the book- as in even if it is an 8 minute job he charges the 1.5 hours the book calls for...

You should know by now my motto is "Why do some thing yourself when you can pay someone to do it for you" ::handleba

I resigned to the fact a long time ago that I would be rich if I weren't so lazy...

I heard on the radio, that 62% of women think that a man who is handy with tools... and such are "handier in the sack"...

Sorry MM, guess your lacking bro... LOL! Just kidding but found it amusing as it kinda fit this thead... LOL!

[marylandmark]

I heard on the radio, that 62% of women think that a man who is handy with tools... and such are "handier in the sack"...

HAHHAHHA!

See I have always heard compliments on how soft, gentle yet firm my hands were... :cool:

[XPS1210]

ROFLOL!

No comment!

[marylandmark]

Back on topic.. :rolleyes:

My scooter will be going back to the shop on Thursday. All of my parts came in on Friday. Will post results when I get it back......

From what it sounds like from Van's stage I, when I get this stage III back it is going to be a MONSTER! :cool:

Got to go look for that DC/MD/DE/VA race thread now... :---

[XPS1210]

mark, if you hit 70 mph before I do, I just might have to fly down and kick your scooter...

LOL! then ask to ride it...

[Lennox]

yeah, Jered,

If mm gets the new top speed record b/4 you.....well...... what can I say?

[XPS1210]

yeah.. I'll have to get a trip to jersey to come visit and kcik it...

I know I can scam a trip there for a class (as we send people there a lot)...

so MM, if you get to 70mph, I'll be visiting expacting a ride... after I kick it of course...

LOL!

[marylandmark]

Jersey? Ever been there? Not sure if going there is worth riding my scoot for.... :eek: LOL- sorry Jersey people- they just make it so easy...

Well I am going to get my hands on a GPS once I get my scoot back to get some "real world" REAL numbers. I think I might be too scared to look down at it- know any with "hold" features to lock in my top speed? I am going to "rent" it from Best Buy- go buy it, use it and take it back- so I will get the top of the line unit regardless of cost (no restock fees!)

I have done a LOT of reading on the Derbi and I don't think (hope!) 70 is too far fetched!

No need to explain again but remember I went out and bought this scoot to get to this point; I didn't just haphazardly stumble upon the idea of trying out the Derbi. From what I read Metrakit has a good rep and the Derbi is IMHO the best 50cc to start with- putting together a stage III on this should be ALL THAT! Regardless if 18HP is really a "true" number or not- no reason this thing should not be the or close to the baddest DAILY DRIVER scoot around! (I am talking a lot of smack I know but really after reading Van's post on his stage I Derbi I am soooo stoked!!)

Also- I sent a PM to KV to see if he is close to Bel Air, MD if he wanted to meet me- every one else is welcome as well! I will have a GPS so you can go on a time trial! :yippy: Lennox any trips to PA in the future give me a holla- when I get it back and if it is all I heard it is going to be I would be willing to meet you in VA so you don't have to go so far out of your way. J- Jersey is a hike but my home is your home if you wanted to sneak down to MD- we could go scootin in DC! You would be on my stock Zuma but if you wanted to stage II it you could do that as well. :rolleyes:


(ps- YES, I have been to Jersey many, many times. My Father for 20+ years has lived less than 20 minutes west of Philly and we also have a beach house in OC, NJ..)

[Raise]

For what it's worth I finally got a chance to really open up the throttle on my GP1. I'm 5'9" and 240# and still got up to 52mph. That is just with derestriction and traffic started to build up in front of me so I had to slow down but the bike was still slowly gaining more speed before I backed off the throttle. I think I could have probably topped out at around 55mph.

Hmmmm run around the track and give up Twinkies or just go Stage III? j/k but that is the kind of speed I'm getting right now with no aftermarket mods so I'm hoping that you get your rocket once the Stage III kit is installed and tuned right!

[marylandmark]

Holy Smokes! NICE NICE NICE! Hail to the Derbi :worship: :yippy:
CONGRATS! Nice scoot you got there- 50+ STOCK is sooo, soo nice. Imagine if you would stage that thing- 80MPH?!?! :eek:

[marylandmark]

Off she goes....

My scoot was spotted leaving the scene at 5:22AM enroute to a make over..

We shall see what ye ol Derbi can do!

[van ringostein]

Ok, now I have to cry, I thought I was doing 60, I am only getting 57, my speedo is off :( :angry: I thought I was doing so good. Oh well....still pretty good IMO.

[marylandmark]

57 on a stage 1? How did you check this?

I STILL think it is AWESOME- 57MPH!!!!

[marylandmark]

My dealer has my Derbi- confirms it runs like pooh.. Will provide updates as they happen.

[van ringostein]

the fact that my speedo said I was doing 60 and the cop that pulled me over said I was doing 57. I guess I should not go that fast in a 35, even though I was being passed by cages left and right.

[marylandmark]

Ouch- forgot about that Bro...

[pghchico]

Just read this thread for the first time. I have a hopped up GP1 myself, fastest iv'e had it is about 65mph going through the liberty tubes here in Pittsburgh. First check out DELETED EXTERNAL LINK they have a big write up about tunning the GP1, the hi-per Piaggio engine also on the Piaggio NRG scooter.
Anyway, you shouldn't have a problem with the crank, because unlike most other scooters, the GP1 already has a 12mm wrist pin, as opposed to the 10mm on the zumas. One of the other items you should have considered was a final gear change, which could give you some extra speed.

BTW. I'm running a Malossi MHR 70cc cylinder, and leo Vince ZX pipe. One thing i didn't do, but may in the future is to run a bigger carb. Mine is still the stock 17.5mm with bigger jets. I also ordered but didn't end up using the stiffer clutch springs. The stock ones seemed to work best. I didn't like the stiffer race ones cause i had to rev the engine high to make it engage the clutch. I changed my final gears, but i went the opposite direction and made the bike more torquey. Pittsburgh is very hilly, and the bike flys up the hills even with my fat 240# ass on it.

[marylandmark]

I got a Atlantis Bullet, not a GP1..

65MPH? NICE!!! :worship:

Stock crank I have been told would be fine- not sure what size my scoot has in it. Air cooled 50cc Piggy?

Not sure what they are going to put in the clutch- will post when I get it back. I don't like to wait- when I twist the throtte I want to start moving right then.

[marylandmark]

Just got off the phone with my dealer...

Said should be ready tomorrow AM! :)

Said he got up to 65MPH in 200 yards and it was still pulling when he ran out of road! I called in "sick" this whole week for work so can't ride it when I get it back... :angry:

I am going to go for a 2-3 mile ride when I pick it up to make sure all is good to go and will report back tomorrow on how it went!

[XPS1210]

yeah...

The other thing about scooters... I've noticed they kick butt when you first do upgrades... and after a few miles... they loose some of the take off...

Rather aggrivating imo...

[marylandmark]

On the way to get it right now!!!