Power loss! ARGH!!

[DCVino2002]

Hey! I love this board, and usually I can find what I need with a search, but either I'm just missing it today or I'm having a combination of problems and I can't seem to find the right recipe <g>.

I have a 2002 Vino with about 2600 miles on it, which I bought used (about 500 of the miles are mine). I ride it every day to work, and love it. Recently it's been sounding kind of rough, so I took the spark plug out to check it - it was pretty dirty, leaning towards black, so I cleaned it, scraped it, and re-gapped it, then stuck it back in. I planned to replace it, but have had trouble finding them in a retail place, so I ordered a couple of new plugs today. Meanwhile, the motor now is very even, but it's like it's only getting reduced fuel or something - I have to have the throttle turned to even start it, and if I let it go completely at any time (cold, hot, or in-between) it dies. Also, the excellent take-off I used to have after the light turned green is gone, although the cruising speed doesn't seem to be affected much.

Did I knock something loose? Is this a side-effect of cleaning or correcting the plug gap? Will a new plug fix it, or should I (or a mechanic) adjust something else?

Thanks in advance,

Carolee
DCVino2002

[Lennox]

I would start with a new plug. Have you tried PEP BOYS or AUTOZONE? How about a cycle shop??

[Bad*Brad]

Even if it turns out to be the spark plug, I would be thinking new belt soon with that mileage.

[DCVino2002]

Well, it died at a stop light riding home from work yesterday and I couldn't get it to restart, so I caved and went to a cycle shop and got a couple of new plugs. I put one in and it sounds about the same - I could get it started one time with the throttle at about half.

One thing I noticed - it seemed like the boot on the ignition wire fit right up against the body when I removed it the first time to take the plug out - now there is about a quarter inch of air space between the face of the boot and the scoot. I don't want to test out the theory by over-torquing and trashing the plug threads - does anyone know off-hand (or have their scooter handy) if the boot is supposed to be flush or if there is space between it and the surface of the scooter when it's properly on?

I think you're right about the belt, btw. But I'm thinking this is an unrelated problem.

Thanks!
Carolee

[thirteens]

The wire should fit right up against the body. When I changed mine the replacement plug was only about 1/8 of an inch longer, but it works fine.

I had something similar happen last week. I could start it, but it was running at a very low RPM, but mine would die when I gave it throttle. I checked the oil, there was enough in it to keep the light off, but as soon as I added more oil, it ran fine. Also, check your air box and filter, it could be that it's not getting enough air.

When my belt wore out it didn't stall, it just wouldn't grab after stopping, until 30 seconds after pushing it through an intersection.

[King Vino]

Hmmm, I have to think about this some more after I get back from Denton MD today. I can ponder this some more maybe on that damn Bay Bridge.

[Davey-boi]

What I don't get is that I always have to give her a lil gas to fire my vino up. Electric start never starts my baby up by itself, even when it was brand new!

[XPS1210]

I think it's normal...

The reasoning is... All vehicles with a carb.... Liek the scooter and older cars.... Like to have a "tap" of the gas... Most like to have the pedal pressed to the floor once before starting...

Probably like the cars.... The scooter is the same way as it's carberated and like the "priming" of the throttle being "tapped" a little.

[Davey-boi]

Yeah, thats what I was thinkin.

[SuperDaveJr.]

It may be the plug, but if that dosent help then you may want to try taking apart the carb. and thourougly cleaning it.

[DCVino2002]

Thanks for all of your suggestions. The new plug hasn't made a difference, and the air filter looks pretty clean. I'm thinking this weekend I might check the exhaust for blockage, and then dismantle the carb if that doesn't work. Between the crap on the old plug and the sudden symptoms of stall, I'm leaning toward it being an air-flow problem. I'll let you know if I find anything out.

[SuperDaveJr.]

Yeah, there may be a huge chunck of crap in your intake, ya never know. Try cleaning the jet out. Also you might wanna check the drive train. Maybe the output shaft for the variator is stripped or something. You never know, the possibilities are great.

[DCVino2002]

Okay, I feel pretty much like an idiot, but it least it was an inexpensive lesson. The boot of the ignition wire IS supposed to be flush; the problem WAS the plug. When I returned the original plug after cleaning and regapping it, I cross-threaded it so it (understandably) couldn't get to the proper level or position. What gets me is that I managed to do this by hand, without straining myself, or even feeling it! Apparently the lead in DC's water pipes builds muscles I wasn't aware of.

So I had to get it retapped after which it is running beautifully. I have on my birthday list a Kevlar belt and a couple of S1's. That should hold me until Christmas. Well, maybe.

Thanks,
Carolee

[King Vino]

Like I always say, almost every issue with the scooter is something so simple you wanna kick yourself afterward.

[marylandmark]

DCVino

What mods have you done to you scoot and who did the work?

[Lennox]

Glad you got it running.




In the future, you can buy a "Heli-coil" kit, and fix stripped/crossthreaded holes yourself.

[DCVino2002]

Yeah, pretty stock - I got it used about three months ago. The only mod I know of is that the exhaust restrictor was taken out. I'm not sure about the variator governor. I can get it to about 45 mph if I'm out in the 'burbs, but I almost always drive it in DC (where I don't have enough miles between red lights).

I've been reading the posts on Stage One, and I'm kind of undecided about doing that. I probably get the biggest kick from shooting off the line as the light turns green, and I'd really hate to lose that. Seems like there's a lot of variety in experience with that balance. You guys think it's worth the take-off reduction to have the top-speed increase?

[Lennox]

you can tune your scooter to suit YOUR needs. "off the line" or "top speed" can be achieved with a few simple mods. it all depends on what you want.

[vinniereno]

now if your plug is black (ish)) and cleaning it doesn't make a difference to performance how does your air filter look?
If it's clogged it will make the mixture run rich and foul you up at low revs.
there is only like a one square inch of foam that actually does any filtering if you've been in there lately.
clean it out with some gas and try it out again, see if that makes any difference.
cheers,
vinnie
by the way KV how about the 'upgrade' hail to the king, 'save the bay' 'charter member' etc .......dude.
vinnie

[DCVino2002]

Actually I did take the air filter out and look at it when someone suggested it earlier. It seemed pretty clean, judging by nothing coming off on my hands, no stiffness, and I could see through it. But since you mention it, what *should* I be looking for? I have a slight handicap from never having worked on a scooter coupled with having done some work on cars . . . the diagnostics don't necessarily translate. . . <grin> which is why I didn't even consider the possibility I could have cross-threaded the plug with my bare hands! But I need to clean the fuel filters on my car, so while I'm already playing in gasoline, maybe I'll swirl the scooter's air-filter around a bit.