Liquid Vs Air Cooled

[wideopen01]

OK i was discussing with my friend about air cooled kits and liquid cooled ones and i dont realy seem to understand why you would spend 330 dollars on a liquidcooled kit and have to mount the radiator get all the piping and what not...or get a kit for 150 200...the way i see it if you set your aircooled kit right and have it have decent compression not be stupid and get like 15 to 1..leave it around 12 to 1 it should run the same as a liquid cooled..if i am mistaking please someone let me know..because i see talk to guys running BIG BOY 90-114 KITS IN KITS IN HAWAII AND HAVE IS AIR COOLED but when the get 125 or so then they start to get liquid cooled.i uderstand a 125 being liquid cooled but not a 70cc being liquid cooled.... :confused:

[Aviatrixie]

It's all about physics. Water cooling does a much more effective job of keeping a steady temperature on all of the engine components. This results in much less expansion and constriction of engine parts. That in turn allows for much closer tolerances in the machining of those parts. Ergo, radical tuning (pipes, carbs, extreme rpm's, etc) won't throw things out of wack as fast. Simply put, air doesn't cool as well as water.


OK i was discussing with my friend about air cooled kits and liquid cooled ones and i dont realy seem to understand why you would spend 330 dollars on a liquidcooled kit and have to mount the radiator get all the piping and what not...or get a kit for 150 200...the way i see it if you set your aircooled kit right and have it have decent compression not be stupid and get like 15 to 1..leave it around 12 to 1 it should run the same as a liquid cooled..if i am mistaking please someone let me know..because i see talk to guys running BIG BOY 90-114 KITS IN KITS IN HAWAII AND HAVE IS AIR COOLED but when the get 125 or so then they start to get liquid cooled.i uderstand a 125 being liquid cooled but not a 70cc being liquid cooled.... :confused:

[wideopen01]

It's all about physics. Water cooling does a much more effective job of keeping a steady temperature on all of the engine components. This results in much less expansion and constriction of engine parts. That in turn allows for much closer tolerances in the machining of those parts. Ergo, radical tuning (pipes, carbs, extreme rpm's, etc) won't throw things out of wack as fast. Simply put, air doesn't cool as well as water.

Right but I mean PERFORMANCE wise does it do any better...say you have a 70cc evolution kit thats liquid and a 70cc evoulution kit thats air and the air is set up and tuned right it wont be any diffrence performance wise RIGHT. :confused:

[Aviatrixie]

It will make a difference. .if your tuning heats your metal enough it will contort... now your combustion gases are slipping past your rings, your piston is getting askew in the cylinder, horsepower is disappating into thin air, and over-stressed engine parts are fragmenting and falling into your crankcase.

VW made a great air cooled engine for decades. I owned a Beetle, Super Beetle, and Karmen Ghia. I also taught people to fly in assorted Cessna's, Beech's, Belanca's, Piper's etc that had air cooled engines. Air cooling is simple. That is a good thing. Air cooling does not work really well. That's NOT a good thing.

Ultimately, it gets down to how highly you want to tune your engine. Stage One, air is prolly ok. Push it much further and H2O is best.

It's physics.



Right but I mean PERFORMANCE wise does it do any better...say you have a 70cc evolution kit thats liquid and a 70cc evoulution kit thats air and the air is set up and tuned right it wont be any diffrence performance wise RIGHT. :confused:

[wideopen01]

It will make a difference. .if your tuning heats your metal enough it will contort... now your combustion gases are slipping past your rings, your piston is getting askew in the cylinder, horsepower is disappating into thin air, and over-stressed engine parts are fragmenting and falling into your crankcase.

VW made a great air cooled engine for decades. I owned a Beetle, Super Beetle, and Karmen Ghia. I also taught people to fly in assorted Cessna's, Beech's, Belanca's, Piper's etc that had air cooled engines. Air cooling is simple. That is a good thing. Air cooling does not work really well. That's NOT a good thing.

Ultimately, it gets down to how highly you want to tune your engine. Stage One, air is prolly ok. Push it much further and H2O is best.

It's physics.

ok tell me this why do almost all people that own honda dios and have 85-114cc STROKER KITS have air cooled?? the only kits that i have seen on bikes are liquid cooled is the 125ccs.what stage is strokers stage 5??6??

[Aviatrixie]

I have no clue.

:)


ok tell me this why do almost all people that own honda dios and have 85-114cc STROKER KITS have air cooled?? the only kits that i have seen on bikes are liquid cooled is the 125ccs.what stage is strokers stage 5??6??

[Aviatrixie]

sorry about my last...

you really need to get a grip on what is happening in your engine. I've got two of them at work. Heat is a good thing up to a point, then it sux in a hurry.

Me... I own my Vino, and I'm having a ball tuning it. I also own a honda twinstar and a suzuki bandit.


Oh.... and I fly big jets

In the end, I'm here because I enjoy my Vino. I'm not a liquor lisence sort of gal... I tend to pay good mechs for what I want... and I enjoy proving men wrong. ;)


ok tell me this why do almost all people that own honda dios and have 85-114cc STROKER KITS have air cooled?? the only kits that i have seen on bikes are liquid cooled is the 125ccs.what stage is strokers stage 5??6??

[RC51 Daytona]

I have seen water cooled cylinder kits for 85cc up to the max which is around 125cc. Air cooled kits are simple, they require, your stock fan and good shrouding. Liquid cooled kits require custom piping, radiator placement, cooling fans, (three inch, dual mounted computer fans) , and last but not least= The little water pump that makes the whole system work, that is not all that reliable. The pump goes out, you walk home or seize the motor. That is why the big boys on the islands use air cooled. It is simple and reliable. And a hell of a lot cheaper than a complex water cooled system. :)

[King Vino]

ok tell me this why do almost all people that own honda dios and have 85-114cc STROKER KITS have air cooled?? the only kits that i have seen on bikes are liquid cooled is the 125ccs.what stage is strokers stage 5??6??

The reason is weight. Liquid cool adds points, and believe me there are race folks out there who would shave a half pound to gain a a tenth of a second. When I raced my Mustang on the quarter mile, we had guys who'd take out their rear seat and passenger seat just to gain a tenth of a second. A kid I ride with has a Super-9 with a stage one, and I beat him all the time, cause the scoot is just too damn heavy. Dio boys tend to be hi-performance riders.

[Aviatrixie]

Thank you!!!!

Funny thing about 49cc bikes... they get into this "getting the most from the least" thing. Me... I've got 49cc to work with. If I wanted 70cc or 105cc I would have bought a bigger bike!

I've spinned my speedo to the left of my oil light. That's a good thing, right? LOL

Sorry.... my tiny head is filled with ways to stop hijackers. It was one of those days.


I have seen water cooled cylinder kits for 85cc up to the max which is around 125cc. Air cooled kits are simple, they require, your stock fan and good shrouding. Liquid cooled kits require custom piping, radiator placement, cooling fans, (three inch, dual mounted computer fans) , and last but not least= The little water pump that makes the whole system work, that is not all that reliable. The pump goes out, you walk home or seize the motor. That is why the big boys on the islands use air cooled. It is simple and reliable. And a hell of a lot cheaper than a complex water cooled system. :)

[florida derbi rocket]

I Have seen posts on other Forums about water Leaks.....The Scooter racers at Derbi Swear on the Air-Cooled engine for Racing..(Even though Piaggio has a LOT of Liquid cooled Engines)I have read that water leaks show up a lot on the Big boy Strokers..If you have a Big enough Leak....You can suck this water into your Intake :eek: ....... Waiting for Rydah to Represent Hawaii.. John

[smokin]

well think about this why is it jap bikes are liquid cooled and race cars and race bikes and pretty much almost anything that makes alot of power wideopen you even said it yourself the 125s have liquid cooling because they make alot of power but also those 125s make sooooooo much friction because of their 55 bore and 52 stroke i couldn't see one running that wouldn't be liquid cooled.really though what it comes down to is how much power you are gonna make i mean if your just gonna get a liquid cooled kit just to get it then i think it's pointless if your not gonna be makin some serious power you might as well get an aircooled one but if you are gonna be making seriousssss power i think liquid cooled is better.

[florida derbi rocket]

Yea smokin...I was talkin 50/70cc size...But...... I wish the manufactures would make a thicker case..a lot less expansion and contraction... :smokin:

[smokin]

And also 90% of the time all those really fast scooters that i see are all water cooled especially the strokers.

[florida derbi rocket]

I'm waiting to hear From Lennox on How Hot his Yamaha 105cc Stroker Gets... :frog:

[XPS1210]

I rarely hear from lennox on it... he was all stoked about it to start... and nothing...
Lennox you ever ride anymore?

I still say we need to race! I'll beat you! HAHAHAHHA! 105cc - 70cc... hrm... well maybe!

[King Vino]

Isn't he (Lennox) also working on a Vento R3 as well?

[florida derbi rocket]

I think he keeps that one Bone Stock ;no

[wideopen01]

And also 90% of the time all those really fast scooters that i see are all water cooled especially the strokers.


You must be mistaking smokin all strokers from 85-114cc that ive seen is air the only kit that ive seen people have liquid cooled is the 125ccs

[XPS1210]

actually the liquid cooled cylinders can be tuned "more agressively" as the water cools the engine instead of the fuel and air...

the LC has more potential....

[King Vino]

actually the liquid cooled cylinders can be tuned "more agressively" as the water cools the engine instead of the fuel and air...

the LC has more potential....

I'd like to see a scooter that is cooled by the power of thought :naught:

[wideopen01]

I'd like to see a scooter that is cooled by the power of thought :naught:

lol i think cooled by air is fine :race: no need to spend all that extra money but people might see water cooled as a better kit