Perpetual: Stage two trouble

[JeremyD]

I really dont know if this is the right place to write this on but anyways. I bought two 2004 zumas brand new a month and a half ago for me and my wife, I orderd the stage 2 kits clutches reeds kevlar belts clutch bells basiclly everything Erich had on the website for them. I took mine apart and installedeverything (except my clutch) and I cant get it to crank. On the carb choke the wires doesnt matter when I cut them do they? and what about the cf reeds, am I supposed to put that insert in the cage. I did. I know it is getting gas to the cylinder becuase it has gas on the plug when I pull it off and the plug is firing so I dont know what the problem is. Is there anyone that lives in any state around alabama that I could get to help me. I have been working on 2 stroke dirtbikes for a long time and this thing has got me puzzled. If there is anyone that would be willing to help me get this thing back together that doesnt live to far you can email me at ***REMOVED EMAIL ADDRESS, PLEASE PM THIS MEMBER IF YOU ARE ABLE TO ASSIST AS MENTIONED*** or if you could just email me your phone number or I could give you mine so I could get this thing sorted out. Thanks for everything

[Lennox]

when you say "won't crank" do you mean it won't turn over, or won't fire?

[JeremyD]

It will turn over and the spark plug will fire but the motor wont run

[Lennox]

there are only 3 things needed to run.......... spark, fuel, and compression. You say you have 2 of these..... It has to be the third.... Did you tear any gaskets (i.e. the head gasket, or the intake manifold gasket at the reed cages?) How about the reeds? Do they sit TOTALY flat against the cages?

[JeremyD]

I justr ran a compression test and it is at90 psi that seems kinda low everything id sitting flat though

[JeremyD]

I was just looking gaskets and I do have a gasket that is about 1 inch around and it is copper. It looks like it would be an exhuast gasket but my exhaust came with an exhaust gasket. Do you know what that is? Thanks

[Lennox]

that is for a stock exhaust.... yes, 90lbs is kinda low. Now all you have to do is figure out where your comp is going ;)

[JeremyD]

Any ideas all of my gaskets are on and everything is flush. Could I have gotten a bad cylinder? or piston and rings?

[Lennox]

I doubt its a bum cyl (it is possible though).

I would double check the reeds/cage and the head and cyl base gasket......

[JeremyD]

I just checked the compression again and I guess I didnt have my gauge on there good because it is reading about 120psi. I figure that is about where it should be at. So it has compression, it has gas going to it and it has spark and it wont run it doesnt even try to start. It looks like there is an awful lot of gas on the plug when I pulled it out, could it be flooding out really quick because of the automatic choke? I really dont know im just throwing out ideas. It really doesnt matter which wires you connect to each other after you clip the wrong connection off on the choke for the new 19mm carb does it? Am I supposed to put the insert that came with my carbon fiber reeds in to my reed cage? The stock one didnt have an insert like that. I am going to keep on trying and maybe I will get it. If you have any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it and I will keep yall posted.

[Lennox]

that is a reed "stuffer" and yes it goes in. That will not stop it from running though..... Have you tried a new plug?

you keep confusing me :confused: you say it wont eveb try to start? when you hit the button, it cranks right? How did you confirm the spark?

You will be running before you know it, I promise!

[JeremyD]

When I hit the starter the motor turns over but it wont run. I havent tried a new plug it is a brand new one in there. In order for me to confirm that the plug was firing I pulled the plug out of the cylinder, stuck it in the cap, grounded it out on the frame and turned the motor over.

[XPS1210]

to start check out this thread... It's about how to hook the hoses up right...

carb hoses thread (http://www.provoscooter.com/vbull/showthread.php?t=762&highlight=hose+carb)

If that doesn't help then we should further explore whats up... I'd guess even though the plug is "WET" when you pull it out of the cylinder that either your not getting fuel, or maybe WAY to much and might need to adjust the carb some before it fires...

Let us know...

Also with the set up you have you might want to look at going premix on the oil instead of the injection system... which is great for a stock set up but not as reliable with a upgraded set up... find the oil tank removal how to (http://www.provoscooter.com/vbull/article.php?a=27) and the oil pump disable how to (http://www.provoscooter.com/vbull/article.php?a=26)... these will give you a more reliable oil supply and eliminate the oil line running to the carb...

[JeremyD]

I have the hoses hooked up like lennox has in his picture. The small line on the fuel pump goes to the vac line on the carb and the smaller oil line coming from the oil pump goes to the fitting that is right in front of the intake boot that goes to my reeds. I am going to go ahead and disable the pump and remove the tank as soon as I get this thing running. It is so aggrevating, I guess because I am so ready to see what kind of power it is going to have. Then when I finish this one I am going to do the same thing to my wifes I already have the stuff to do it with but I want to have mine right before I tear into hers

[Lennox]

once you do get it going PLEASE break it in...... I know it is tough with "new" found power/speed but you must take it easy for AT LEAST 50 miles!!!!

Maybe the carb is sticking and flooding the cyl?

[JeremyD]

When you say the carb is sticking do you mean the float or the slide. I figure if the float is sticking gas will be coming out the overflow hose. I know the slide isnt sticking because I still have all the plastics off the scooter and the air filter off so I can see the slide. When I put the air filter on do I put it directly to the carb or will I still use the stock air box. I guess I need to have it running before I really worry abouth that huh

[XPS1210]

you can use either the stock air box and make extra holes on the intake side (not the carb side)...

I have the performance filter on as I didn't want to chop the stock one up... or even have it in place as I think it looks ugly...

The next thing to try is to set the screws both at 2 turns from all the way in... this is a good starting point if the screws are goofy to start...

you also might want to check and make sure that the Jet is tight in the bottom of the carb... if it's loose then it will allow WAY to much fuel into the carb...

[JeremyD]

I finally got it to run and still I dont know if once it cools down it will start up without using the starting fluid. I dont know what was wrong with it, I had to use starting fluid to get it to bust off. I adjusted the mixture screw to 2 turns out and it is bogging when I give it gas.I turned it in 1/4 turn at a time andI mostly got it to clear up but then it is only about 1/2 a turn to 3/4 of a turn from being all the way inand I think that is to lean. Even then when I sat on it and gave it gas it was bogging really bad. Correct me if im wrong but the screw that you can turn with your fingers is the idle screw isnt it and the other is the mixture. Right?

[marylandmark]

Whew...Glad you were able to get it running even with starting fluid- running is better than being dead in the water anyday as you know!

Anyway- sorry I can't answer your ??'s but here is some more hopefully helpful info that is cut and pasted from the how to section. (http://www.provoscooter.com/shop/howtocarb.php)


Make sure that you do not confuse tuning the carb with tuning the transmission. The bike should, when the transmission is tuned correctly, rev as high as possible before the clutch stalls and during acceleration so as to get the best power. Remember, the higher the revs, the more power and the faster your bike will go. If the bike starts moving before the motor is in powerband (the range in which the motor makes the most power) it will seem to bog, but really it is just running too slow and is not getting into powerband. A dead giveaway that your transmission is not tuned correctly is that the bike is slow to 30mph, then it takes off. For more information on tuning the variator and transmission, see the instructions on the Tecnomoto variator.

You seem to know what you are doing and are a much welcomed addition to the boards so not sure if that helps any or not. There was one dude on the old boards so focused on the carb bogging that he never thought it could have been related to some thing else until someone meantioned the above and that is what fixed it.

[JeremyD]

I really dont know if it is the transmission or not because it is bogging before the rear wheel even starts turning

[marylandmark]

I read it that you were twisting the throttle 1/2 to 3/4, not the screw- sorry...

I re-read it and now understand what you were saying.

It is bogging and the rear wheel is not spinning so it could still be related to what I meantioned so I guess it was not a total waste of board space... :)

[Lennox]

ok, there a few more q's I have for you.

#1 what jet are you using? the 95? is it tight? This is the Arreche carb, right?

#2 when you got it to fire did you have the airbox on? Is the airbox stock?

[JeremyD]

I am using the 95 jet in it and I checked to make sure it was tight and it was. It is the 19mm arreche carb. and I dont have an airbox on the scooter is still torn apart with all the plastics off of it

[Lennox]

put the stock air box on, try it and tell me what difference it makes ;)

[JeremyD]

Ill try it when I get off work tommorowand let you know. Thanks

[JeremyD]

I put the airbox on and it does do better but still seems like something isnt right. When I give it gas it sounds like it is spitting and sputtering getting up to speed. I dont have my new clutch in it yet so I havent messed with it. When it is sitting still on the stand it starts idling up by itself. and when it is on the ground it feels like it wants to go all the time. When I am going down the road and let off the gas it wants to keep on going too. In the variator I have got the lightest weights in it. I am just trying to tell what all is going on and how I have it setup in case someone else had the same problem

[JeremyD]

I am going to put the clutch on tommorow after I get off work. Should I use the red spings or the white springs with my delta clutch? Why is it when I roll the throttle the least bit forward when it is idling it revs up? Is there a kit I can buy to do away with the two cable system on the throttle?

[Lennox]

I am going to put the clutch on tommorow after I get off work. Should I use the red spings or the white springs with my delta clutch? Why is it when I roll the throttle the least bit forward when it is idling it revs up? Is there a kit I can buy to do away with the two cable system on the throttle?

you are still using two cables??

we need to get it running right before you put on the clutch... Try drilling a 3/4 inch hole in the dirty side of the airbox. Also remove the "snorkel" from inside the airbox. Then take another test ride.....

[JeremyD]

I still have both of the cables intact to the throttle and the are both run down to the carb but only one is hooked up to the carb. I think I was reading in a forum or somewhere to leave the second cable hooked up to the grip and install that screw type clamp that came in the bag with the new jet and stuff so the throttle wont twist forward. when you are getting on the scooter if you grab the throttle an twist it the least bit forward the scooter wants to go for some reason. I will try doing that to the airboxfriday after work I forgot its my sisters birthday tommorow and were all going out to eat. Any I dea why the scooter starts to rev up by itself while its on the stand? it will be idling fine then it will just rev up?

[XPS1210]

I did that originally but my 1st shaved end was a hair to small and it popped out of the carb...

So I used the 2nd cable... Placed into the "PULL" side of the throttle...

I have only 1 cable installed... I can spin the throttle the other direction but it doesn't do it on it's own... I have to try to make it do it...

No problems with it returning to idle or anything...

Just a thought... take the 2nd cable off... there is no need for it to stay installed...